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Ben, Braines was specifically addressing the claims of Wallace and Hubbard, so using them to dismiss Braines without addressing his evidence and arguments seems to be begging the question. Dismissing Braines as "a civil servant who was not prepared to admit he had made a mistake" is an ad hominem argument that doesn't address the very detailed evidence he presented, or the fact that all serious scholars familiar with this issue (that I'm aware of) think highly of his arguments and conclusions. The history of the property on which the Globe stood has been researched exhaustively, and that history was detailed by Herb Berry in "The Globe: Documents and Ownership", published in The Third Globe (1981) and Shakespeare's Playhouses (1987); Berry found nothing to dispute the conclusion that the property lay south of Maiden Lane, and he considered Braines's conclusion to be "brilliantly proved". The 2010 Bowsher-Miller book that I cited below also details that history and notes much other evidence, such as the fact that the second Globe is shown south of Maiden Lane in a 1618 map of Southwark. If you think the Globe was north of Maiden Lane / Park Street, then what do you think was excavated on the Anchor Terrace site in 1989? Was it some other playhouse hitherto unknown in the documentary record? Dave Kathman [log in to unmask] On Jun 7, 2012, at 6:13 PM, Ben Alexander wrote: > Dear David, > > In independent research I found that the two areas of land which > were purchased for the Globe were identifiable on the north side of > maiden lane. I later discovered George Hubbard’s “On the Site of the > Globe Playhouse of Shakespeare” which added to my findings. I also > checked out this business of mistaking the north-south, east-west > orientation and the Baines argument is disingenuous and what one > would expect from a civil servant who was not prepared to admit he > had made a mistake. Actually, I’m not hung up on where the Globe is > or whether another theatre was excavated. Wallace’s findings > indicate the North. A theatre is excavated on the South of Maiden > Lane. Someone is wrong. I need to dig out the map that shows the two > plots and I’ll send you a copy. > > Best wishes, > > Ben > > From: David Kathman > Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2012 6:31 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Curtain > > Ben -- > > I'm not sure what documentary evidence you're talking about. It used > to be widely believed that the Globe was on the north side of Maiden > Lane (now Park Street) because of a series of early modern leases > that seemed to put it there. But in "The Site of the Globe > Playhouse, Southwark" (1924), W. W. Braines showed that all these > leases were copying a property description that had appeared in one > early document, and that this document had mistakenly reversed the > north-south orientation in its description. Braines made a very > strong case for locating the Globe on the south side of Maiden > Lane / Park Street, and while there were still some holdouts between > 1924 and 1989 who still clung to the old belief, the discovery of > the Globe's foundations in 1989 effectively clinched the matter, and > showed that Braines was right. Julian Bowsher and Pat Miller of the > Museum of London Archeology Service discuss all this in considerable > detail in their 2010 book "The Rose and the Globe: Playhouses of > Shakespeare's Bankside, Southwark", which also includes all the > details of the excavations of the Rose and Globe sites. Another book > coming out from MoLAS next month, "Shakespeare's London > Theatreland", will include details of the Theatre and Curtain > excavations in Shoreditch. > > Dave Kathman > [log in to unmask] > > On 6/7/2012 10:26 AM, Ben Alexander wrote: >> >> I will watch with interest to see if this sparks a discussion about >> the excavation of the Elizabethan “Globe” some years ago. In a rush >> to judgment the current Elizabethan archaeologists assumed the >> Globe was beneath their feet but thier site was south of the then >> named Maiden Lane while documentary evidence indicates the Globe >> was on the north side. >> >> Ben Alexander >> Marple >> >> From: David Klausner >> Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2012 3:59 PM >> To: [log in to unmask] >> Subject: Curtain >> >> Most of you will have seen this, but if not… >> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-18351007 >> David >> >> David Klausner, Professor of English and Medieval Studies, >> University of Toronto >> tel: 416-946-7379, fax: 416-978-8294 >> >> "Of all noises I think music is the least disagreeable." >> Samuel >> Johnson >> > >