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Doug, Here's Philippa's voice instead of Normand's. I think one of the main tensions that exists between WAC courses (or as you say, WI courses) in their IDEAL form, and a writing competency test (or even simply a writing competency requirement), is a tension between process and product, or between writing-to-learn and learning-to-write. In other words, by placing the emphasis on writing competency (whether through a test OR through a WI course) we inevitably detract from the principle of writing-to-learn. The university tends to see the achievemtn of writing competency (a kind of finite product that can be acquired once and for all, and then no longer needs explicit attention) as the main objective of WAC courses, as well of course as of the test. Because our WAC courses were intially developed as a kind of "solution" to the poor levels of writing competency which the test was measuring, it's hard to get away from the concept of writing competency as central to our WAC program as long as we have the test playing a central, or even any role. In my view, at any rate. I'm not sure what Laurence thinks. I would go further and say that as long as the issuing of writing competency scores (1 to 4) is a primary objecttive of WAC courses, we will still be faced, at least to some extent with the tension. Is this tension wholly bad? Not necessarily -- since certainly competent products, as well as fulfilling processes, are important to the role that writing plays in the university -- that is, students ARE measured on the competency of their final products, and to deny this in favour of a process approach divorced from product mentality is perhaps hypocritical... But what I would like to see happen is a reversal of the current hierarchy in which product-competency tends to be placed first as a teaching objective, with writing-to-learn, writing process placed second. Instead, I hope we can foster a view that places writing-to-learn first, with writing competency issuing from this primary focus. We have recently revised our programme's objectives to reflect this philosophy. Now we have to sell it! Philippa