Normand, The discussion you've initiated is certainly of central concern to all of us involved with teaching writing. At McGill we were able to fore- stall the implementation of writing competency tests (there was consider able pressure from some sectors within the university and from other Quebec universities who were all "doing it" and wondered how McGill thought it didn't really need them) by arguing that such tests were reductive in the ways they defined writing and writing competency, that any such tests would promote a view of writing as a skill ac- quired once and for all (much of what Phillipa puts so well in her post- ing). We argued that we ought to see writing as continually learned as people confronted new writing difficulties as they moved through the university and into new areas, and that we should always anticipate and allow for a period of regression (Aviva Freedman and Ian Pringle had demonstrated this notion of regression in a comprehensive study in the early 80s), seeing it as a sign of learning, a struggling through language with new concepts etc. We argued as well that what was defined as writing competency in the minds of most people was no more than a concern for surface correctness, and that a large proportion of the errors we ought to be concerned about arose largely from a failure to have a grasp of concepts the writer was struggling with, that fluency in language was not really apart from fluency in thought, and that fluency would come as it always does through familiarization -- a pro- cess involving opportunities to talk in small groups and opportunities to write informally - writing to get the hang of it. This is all top of the head; so I had better stop before I end up writin g something that disproves the very claims I making about writing, think ing and fluency. Patrick Patrick Dias Faculty of Education McGill University 3700 McTavish Street Montreal, QC Canada H3A 1Y2 Telephone: (514) 398-6960 (work) 626-3605 (home) FAX (514) 398-4529 E-Mail: [log in to unmask] From: "Russ Hunt" <[log in to unmask]> To: "James Brown" <[log in to unmask]>, "Mary-Louise Craven" <[log in to unmask]>