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Many thanks to those who have responded to my comments. I hope that a discussion of various points may continue for a while, including some that John McGavin raised (thank you for your note, John: I think that you put it all very fairly. and you are too modest about your own share in the conference, for which congratulations are definitely in order!): for instance, is a "need-to-know" basis adequate/useful enough/likely to be accurate for choosing what should be discussed between REED editors? (I suppose I think not.) On the question of waits, David: judging by the usage in royal household accounts, "wait" derived directly from the OF "gaite" rather than from Germanic cognates. In this sense it is directly applicable to the household wait; he played what became known as the "wait-pipe", later known just as "wait"; so the group was known as "the waits" when they played together, and so was any other group playing those instruments; hence the twon minstrels picked up that name as well (I wonder if they had a trumpet in the group from the start). That, at any rate, is the only way I can make sense of the terminology, and the chronology works as far as I know. John: Patrick Skowgall is wonderful, but you omit vital information! Date? In what period did he play night and morning?--all the year round?--winter only? Nerida: the security of the set is something that still causes headaches when we put on medieval drama out of doors: what a wonderful system you describe! "Pifferi" is actually "pipers", isn't it? I have always assumed that Italian civic "pifferi" were a shawm-and-trumpet group, as they were in England (apparently) to start with. (But see my comment to David, above: is it possible that they were a shawms-only group to start with?) Heigh-ho, the weekend calls (and so does a chapter on drama and the liturgy ...) All good wishes, Richard Richard Rastall Department of Music, University of Leeds, Leeds LS6 9JT UK Tel: 0532 332581 Fax: 0532 332586