I dare to revise and extend - the words that [log in to unmask] (Kivanc Torun) wrote: A Turkish proverb says: "Don't ask a doctor what an illness is, ask a patient!" Doctors may know what should be done and they tell us, but a patient experiences the actual reality; therefore, the experienced patient is a valuable resource. Kivanc also laments lack of "real contact with my doctor". To alleviate the need for beneficial contact with one's physician one must either achieve the wqnted contact via confronting the lack - or - search until finding a physician with whom one is satisfied. Kivanc also wrote: ".... we know more than the doctors so we are the doctors of ourselves." The collective "we" of homo sapiens includes all of us including the "doctors". Of course, no individual knows only from direct experiencing. Neither does any know only from acquired knowledge communicated from others. Each physician has learned a lot; and, each individual has learned a lot. I have learned much (I may brag and feel important - even accomplish great things) but I seek help from experts if the task is not one I am confident I will succeed in completing if it is crucial to my continued existence. I like the poem: Invictus by William Ernest Henley Out of the night that covers me black as the pit from pole to pole, I thank whatever gods may be for my unconquerable soul. In the felt clutch of circumstance I have not winced nor cried aloud. Under the bludgeonings of chance My head is bloody, but unbowed. Beyond this place of wrath and tears looms but the horror of the shade, and yet the menace of the years finds, and shall find me, unafraid. It matters not how strait the gate, how charged with punishments the scroll, I am the master of my fate: I am the captain of my soul. The last two lines may say what Kivanc, myself, and others have tried to express. Id est, seek the best so that you can make a good choice of what you do or have done unto your physical reality. The taunt, "Physician, heal thyself!" comes to cognition. The pacificist chose to die in peace. That too took lots of discipline. ron 1936, dz PD 1984 Ronald F. Vetter <[log in to unmask]> http://www1.ridgecrest.ca.us/~rfvetter/