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I have to agree with Henry. I thought the database was extremely useful for us late comers to the list that needed to look to the archives for missed info. I was just getting the hang of it when the transition was made. Onward. Regards Bill [log in to unmask] At 11:35 AM 4/15/96 -0400, you wrote: >Dear John: >I am one of those that will miss the listserv database. I also >appreciate the fact that you have kept us so nicely informed. >Are there any other databases re-PD which one can pull from. >Sorry to loose the listserv service. I was shocked to see how >few people used it. >Thanks for your assistance, >Henry Guttentag ([log in to unmask]) > > >You wrote: >> >>Since the 27th of March, when the Utoronto changed machines that the >>Listserv ran on some changes have been noticed. While mailing to, and >>receiving mail from the list has basically remained unchanged, some >>traumatic changes have occurred also. >> >>Specifically, the index option for receiving a list of messages at the >end >>of the day, with an opportunity to order the ones you want to receive, >is no >>longer supported. This was an option that those receiving 'to much >mail' >>could use to pick and choose the topic of the day, of their choosing. >This >>option was also useful for those in countries that charge by the >minute online. >> >>The author of the Listserv program has indicated that the index option >will >>return in future versions of the program....in the future. >> >>The database functions that we used the 'tools' for, are not present >in the >>flavors of Listserv that run on the various 'boxes', hosts >institutions are >>converting to. The newer, faster, cheaper machines use different >operating >>systems than the main frame and minis that Listserv was originally >written >>for. The old machines were on a common world-wide network called >Bitnet. >>This network will cease to exist after the end of this year. The >Bitnet >>world is changing to the internet style of addressing and traffic >handling. >>The old Listserv program expected the machine that was running >Listserv to >>be connected to the Bitnet network and sent all of the outgoing mail >to a >>'gateway' which was a Bitnet machine that was connected to not only >Bitnet >>but the internet. Internet mail then was sent directly to the >recipient over >>common carriers, from this 'gateway'. The new machines are connected >>directly to the internet. >> >>WHAT WERE THE DATABASE FUNCTIONS THAT ARE NO LONGER AVAILABLE? >> >>Previously every message sent to Parkinsn was indexed with a number >and put >>in the archives. Every message during a particular week was archived >in log >>file. The log files dated from the first message sent to the list to >the >>last. Each one of these log files was like a file cabinet. >> >> >>HOW MANY MESSAGES DO THESE LOG FILES CONTAIN? >> >>Month Messages/Month AVG Message/Day >>Feb 95 299 10 >>Mar 95 432 14 >>Apr 95 379 13 >>May 95 486 16 >>Jun 95 459 15 >>Jul 95 592 20 >>Aug 95 789 26 >>Sep 95 776 26 >>Oct 95 630 21 >>Nov 95 778 26 >>Dec 95 652 22 >>Jan 96 727 24 >> >>The first six months in 1995 = 15 >>The last six months in 1995 = 25 >> >>The length of these messages vary from 2 or 3 lines to 600 to 700 >lines. >>Studies and articles in the archives average about the latter. >> >>Under the old Listserv program any thing and everything could be >searched >>using the 'tools'. Under the 'New' Listserv, you can only order >individual >>logfiles using the GET command sent to the listserv. Any searching >will have >>to be done once that file is on your machine. Special software will be >>needed to index the words for specific searches. Ordering logfiles >will >>require longer times to download your mail which the logfiles are sent >as. >> >>The reference works and studies in the archives will be on the most >part >>inaccessable to the bulk of the Parkinsn list subscribers. >> >>The gopher files which some searched online are not being maintained. >The >>machine on which these logfiles reside is due for retirement. >> >>Catching up on messages received while you had your subscription set >to >>nomail will be more difficult now. In order to see those messages you >will >>have to GET the applicable logfiles for that period. >> >>In short, things evolve. In terms of the heritage of the Parkinsn >list, our >>archives have been made inaccessable to many and more difficult to >find the >>proverbial 'needle in the haystack' for those who used to access them >>regularly. The archives were accessed about 30 times a day by those >who made >>use of this resource. >> >>Statistically, only about 1% of the Parkinsn list members made use of >the >>archives and another 2 or 3% who ordered the studies and articles of >the >>"Current Topics...." message monthly. The author of Listserv and his >>successor company, didn't consider the impact of eliminating the >database >>functions from Listserv ported to other machines would have on the >research >>community. Institutions license the software and therefore are the >'end >>user' rather than us, the 'real' end users. We had no voice, nor a >seat at >>the negotiating table. The author was real defensive when it was >announced >>by the researchers that 'the Emperor wore no clothes'.<grin> >> >>HOW WILL I GET BY WITHOUT THE ARCHIVES? >> >>Read your mail, save what interests you. Once you have deleted >it....it will >>be gone. >> >>Other avenues are being sought out. >> >>John Cottingham "The parkinsn list brings Knowledge, Comfort, Hope, >and >>Homeboy Friendship to the parkinsonian world." >>LibraryH Parkinson's Chat on the Undernet 8:30 PM CST -6 >Daily. >> If you access the Internet through a provider with >a >>[log in to unmask] PPP/SLIP account, free IRC chat software is >available. WFD >> > Best regards Bill Bell [log in to unmask]