Marcy: Thanks for the clarification and your summary of the presentation. While I understand this distinction between "us" and "them" I question where "they" came from and whose language are "they" using? What is interesting here is that these administrators are just as much a product of university education as we academics are -- and they derive their authority (both culturally and economically) from the degrees earned in our institutions and our classes. "The language of business and the marketplace" has (until quite recently) always been our language -- what I find troubling are the ways in which we've positioned ourselves against and outside of this quite powerful form of discourse. In many ways, it seems like once we've chosen to let go of "market discourse" (in favour of theoretical/aesthetic/??? discourse) we've also given away the ability to construct ourselves in many non-academic (non/aesthetic) environments. Perhaps Kenna and Susan's presentation will help us to envision a more appropriate way to "peddle our wares." -- I'll look forward to seeing the web-site looking north and east -- Brenton Faber ------------------------------------------------------------------- Brenton Faber [log in to unmask] University of Utah University Writing Program Salt Lake City UT 84112