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On Fri, 28 Feb 1997 09:01:52 -0500 Dennis Greene <[log in to unmask]> writes (in part): >Isn't it interesting how the debate on gay visibility within the PD community has become so circular. > >So how do we reconcile Ivan's strongly voiced call for recognition with the predominant list view that the hoped for Oprah show are not the places for private agendas. > > Perhaps the next step is a public awareness campaign on the theme "people get PD'. Such a campaign could show us in all our diversity. > > We heterosexuals allude to our sexuality so casually we are hardly aware we are doing so. Every reference to a husband or wife makes a statement about our sexual orientation.. It is hardly fair to ask Ivan or any other gay listmembers never to mention their partners. > > Finally can there be any real objection to Ivan including a 'proud to be gay' message with his signature. The information may well be irrelevant to other members, but this list has a multitude of messages tacked on to signatures. > >Dennis. > >++++++++++++++++++++ >Dennis Greene 47/10 >[log in to unmask] >++++++++++++++++++++ THANK YOU, Dennis, for writing with such wonderful care and sensitivity. Today I was at the bass section rehearsal of the Maine Gay Men's Chorus, in which I have been fortunate to sing, in spite of being a PWP, since 1993. One of my fellow basses, Jim, told us today of his plans for a Holy Ceremony of Commitment with his partner, also called Jim, (a marriage ceremony) on July 5. We guys are VERY excited! Whether we gay people are single, "married," or have lost our partners, we constantly discuss being acceptable to the heterosexual community. We gay basses were talking today, while taking a break to DEVOUR double chocolate cake, about the FAMILY DYNAMICS involved in making the marriage plans supportive of the parents of both Jims, while minimizing everyone's possible discomfort.. Suddenly, the lights flashed as I realized that the heterosexual Listmembers (most of you) are going through the same process of "family dynamics" as you struggle to accept me as BOTH an OPENLY gay man, and as a PWP. Dennis insightfully states, "every reference to a husband or wife makes a statement about our sexual orientation." This is probably the heart of the matter. Society gives you permission to talk about your husbands and wives or special heterosexual friends, right down to topics like your sex lives, on this List, on Oprah, or anywhere, without any significant danger of disapproval. We gay people have to walk delicately to even allude to such things. This is very difficult and stressful, because inevitably, we are victims of hatred, and we are relegated to second-class status.. For example, think about the horrifying bombing of the lesbian club in Atlanta a week ago. So I really do appreciate Dennis's suggestion that we listmembers recognize and campaign about our diversity. If Oprah wants us PWP's to talk about our caregiving partners, it would be CRAZY for gay PWP's to avoid this. Our gay relationships are part of the fabric of our lives, just as your heterosexual lives include intimate relationships of all kinds.. There is a bumpersticker that says, "Celebrate DIversity." It has the rainbow for a background. That motto reflects my way of thinking. I hope we can continue this dialogue. It is very important to the minority groups on the list. And ultimately, although we are all members of one minority group or another, like vegetarians, artists, liquid sinemet takers, Udallers, and late-night e-mailers, it is my gayness which some of my fellow Listmembers still havel not accepted unconditionally. ] P.S. If I WERE a heterosexual, I would be trying to woo the L'il Honey on the PD Chat, Barb Mallut! Her openness and humor are, as we gay men are known to say (that is, scream), FABULOUS!! Love that sense of "humah!" Ivan Suzman 47/10 Portland, Maine land of lighthouses 40 deg. F. spring-like Proud-to-be-gay, and an uncloseted PWP