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This discussion reminds me of Alan King the comedian. He tells of his classless Uncle Yearl, pronounced YURL, who commented when told just about anything :" NO SH*T?" Well the old guy passed on, and a Rabbi was giving a glowing eulogy, it sounded like he was describing anyone but Uncle Yearl, and after a few of the more unbelievable statements, a relative blurted out: "NO SH*T?" Of course anyone who knew Uncle Yearl had to laugh! I KNOW this has has nothing to do with PD, but it sure is funny!