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This discussion is getting very interesting. It has been brought to my attention by several students (from working with students in the Writing Centre) that many good students write in order to impress the prof -- that is their stated goal. I think we need to remember that when we think about engaging students in meaningful dialogue. I have also been thinking about what is usually given as assignments for students. We tend to accept as an indisputable given that "term papers" are good things to assign. That if a paper isn't long, we are not requiring enough work from the students. (At least I have run into this notion.) As class sizes get larger it is an opportunity to re-think what we want students to be able to do or to have learned as a result of our course. It is also an opportunity to review whether it is necessary to have all students working on the same thing. Much of what students write in term papers is factual information that could be on a test or quiz. When students have several long papers due at the same time, they do not spend time critically analyzing the matter of each course, so frequently we are disappointed by their efforts anyway. I know a few faculty who teach large lecture classes who vary the assignments (students can choose between tests and short papers) and students decide how many of each sort of thing they will do. (as long as it totals 100%) If they wish students may choose to take only a mid-term and final. The professor then has papers to mark all term long, but the piles are smaller. There is more variety in the marking as well. I have been told by one person that by the end of the semester the only students taking the final exam are the disinterested. This particular prof. teaches a science course and his final is multiple choice and fill in the blank and his final marking goes very quickly. Just thought I'd throw these thoughts into the discussion. Katherine McManus