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hi simon you wrote: >In my opinion, banter is only half the problem. i agree the perception of banter is the other half imho >General traffic levels are the underlying issue. i disagree the perception of high traffic as a burden is the basis of the frustration >When traffic is low, >people are very tolerant of off-topic stuff. i disagree the old timers may have more to say about this but since august 1995 when i joined the list and when the membership was only 400 we had identical discussions about relevance we are barbara's guests here in this creation that came out of her heart >I think humour and banter are important. I'd like to grow our >space so we can engage in it without causing upset. i agree whole heartedly and admire your desire and sensitivity >I personally am not demanding anyone leave anything. i understand that and get puzzled by the assumption that some folks seem to make about 'splitting' this list >I am happy to setup lists for people. you are extremely generous in this i can only say yowza >The reason I would like to get some agreement before setting >lists up is because if people don't feel I've done the right >thing, we'll end up in a mess. you have wanted to do something about this for a long time maybe there's a reason for this delay or hesitation maybe your desire to 'do' something just needs a little nudge in a different direction ****nudge alert!**** you are already halfway there the archive work that you've done on the james website is phenomenal! it needs a bit of fine tuning but wow! the entire pd list archive accessible and searchable on the web?! web user friendly? updated automatically? what more could we hope for? when the listserv software was upgraded we lost the old archive search ability which we all hated anyway since then we've been lucky enough to be able to impose on john cottingham i belong to another list with the same software their search facility is clumsy and complex tied into a mirrored usenet newsgroup seems to me a backward step technologically the net is moving toward the web not the other direction whaddya think? your nerdette syber-sis janet