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On Thu, 9 Oct 1997 "B.Bruce Anderson" wrote: >Actually, what we need is a good controversy. Darn, I just can't think of any.... >How many feminists does it take to change a light bulb? >One to change the bulb, one to complain that the bulb is violating the socket, one to secretly wish she were the socket, one to secretly wish she >were the bulb, while the last one gets all charged up and turned on >watching the others. B. Bruce...looks like you've accomplished your goal of "stirring the pot". However, as a feminist, I can recall a joke a number of years being told about guys named Bruce. At the time, I thought it ignorant and in poor taste. The only thing it accomplished was a temporary false sense of superiority for the person telling it. When he observed no one joined him in laughter, he quietly slunk back his cave. On Fri, 10 Oct 1997 Ivan M Suzman wrote: >To call women "girls" is incredibly out-of-touch with modern attitudes!! >I know you're trying to be playful and arousing, but as a man who tries >to be conscious of fairness, I realy oppose your posting this kind of >joke! Ivan...was pleased to read your opinion this a.m. There's no one I respect more, than a non-sexist male who speaks his mind. The world needs more of you. On Fri, 10Oct 1997 bob Anibal wrote: >Maybe I am out of date (79+) but ____m y wife (77/20) occasionally has >the "girls" in for bridge. She is not the youngest - others are 93, 83, >82, 70. My daughters - 50, 48 refer to themselves and their friends as >girls and their daughters 13, 24, 26 do the same. My feeling is that >any female of the species particularly younger than me is a girl. Or are >Ivan's feelings a regional thing. For those of you unfamiliar with New >England culture they have some interesting, sometimes strange and often >entertaining colloquial customs. Bob...I'm going to be 63 on Sunday, if a guy your age called me "girl", I would be insulted and ask you to refrain from it. No... it isn't regional and coloquial speech can be symptomtic of attitudes and beliefs like any other. My two daughters would not put up with my husband, myself, or their two brothers calling them girls. They passed the "girl" stage when they arrived at puberty. On Fri, 10 Oct 1997 Barbara Mallut wrote: >Heck, Ivan...my MOTHER still calls me a "girl," and I think of myself as that also. What IS the big deal, huh? >Ivan, Ivan, Ivan! Sheesh! Come ON, m'friend!. There's some REALLY >important issues that need addressing by a concerned public...like, for >instance the Udall bill... so why nit-pick and waste all that energy and >that fine mind of yours on such a "non-issue!" Barb... since my Mother died in 1987, I'd give anything to hear her call me "girl"...or ANYTHING else for that matter. She was a strong influence in my life. But a "good ole girl" she was not. Language is hardly a "non-issue". While changing language will not alone end racism or sexism it does influence attitude and behavior. (Replacing handicap with disability will not help people with PK keep their jobs either.) There is no one who enjoys a good joke more than I. In fact, if someone doesn't have a sense of humor, there's something wrong! But if that humor hurts someone, that's another story. Peace, Clara Nistler