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George, Thank you for thinking of me so well. And, thank you for continuing this discussion. We may need to talk some more about depression. First I would like to make a distinction between depression, which nearly everyone in the world suffers from at some point in their lives, and clinical depression (cd) which is much deeper and more damaging. Not everyone has experienced cd. Although 100% of pwp suffer from depression, I understand that at least 40% are diagnosed as suffering from cd. It is cd which can cause people to want to commit suicide, not necessarily depression alone. Janet once described it as being at the bottom of a dark pit ( I think of that pit as having no top when I am in it.) Janet, perhaps you could repost the article on cd that was posted some time ago. And some of your comments and/or poetry. As to your question of why I am still here?? I am still here because I have, whether or not I know it, family and friends (including people like you on this list) who care about me and want me to stay for a while longer. I also believe that I still have things to do and people to influence. I, too, believe that none of us would choose to have pd or ms or cp or any other condition which limits us so and creates more hardships than ordinary life. And I will talk with my friend (she is also a psychiatrist) about illness and motivation. It is not something I have thought greatly about, yet. My asking if you were in counselling was perhaps facetious, but as to your comment, " Of course I've been in counselling. Who in their right mind hasn't ?", if a person is really in their right mind do they need counselling?? Even though I am the one to keep telling everyone to not forget how to laugh, I also believe we need to explore and open up the darker side of pd and cd. That is, in my opinion, the only way we can get light into it and help people. When I am in my "pit of cd" I actually cannot laugh, nor smile, nor enjoy even the simplest of pleasures. If you have never been there it may be hard to conceive of being that sad, but it is possible. Once down there, reasons for living fade and reasons for ending this life grow. When I cannot smile at my grandchildren, nor enjoy music, nor look at flowers and sunlight as at least pretty, then I do not want to be alive. My psychologist has said that she believes my cd is chemical not mental and may be partially a result of the pd. This is why I am so interested in correlations between serotonin and dopamine levels. George, I am glad you are on this list and that I am too. don't forget how to laugh (and do it often) Marling McReynolds [log in to unmask]