> From: Ida & Andre Kamphuis <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: dyskinesia > But at te other side I have the symptoms yet. I do have the impression > that taking asperine helps. Asperine ? What is it ? Where can I get it? > > I never heard this from someone else. But it helps only, if taken in a > rather high dose, so that may > > only incidentally be helpfull.. I have always had teimpression that > theses symptoms have a resemblance to "wearing off" symptoms of diverse > dependency creating drugs. If that is true and the same neurological > mechanisms are responsible for it, that might give a clue for trying a > medecine. I agree entirely with this view . Levodopa creates a change in the brain chemistry that leads to increased dyskinesia . Below a quote from J .Bruman CRS MAY 98 Pearce R et al; Mov Disord 1998;13:234-241: Either bromocriptine or ropinirole alone in MPTP monkeys improves motor symptoms with less dyskinesia than the equivalent dosage of levodopa. However, if use of either agonist follows treatment with levodopa, it elicits dyskinesia comparable with that of levodopa. So they conclude that PD treatment should begin with an agonist. Another good source of the effect of Levodopa is DR. Sach's book "The Awakenings" . I especialy like the reference by one patient to L-Dopa as Helldopa . > > I have also the impression from differnt mailings I got on this subject > that a "short" drugholliday for between a 1\2 to one day can do wonders > but only " temporary " and only after starting the meds again.To have > such a drugholliday is now more bearable than before my pallidotomy, > because I do have less heavy Park. symptoms too, due to my pallidotomy. Yes I occasionally take a drug holiday . One of the tests I want to perform with GHB is a trial if it is effective in helping relieve the symtoms in a drug holiday . > On my last visit abour six weeks ago with my neuro he said a new meds was > coming, which he thought was very probable to help aganst wearing off > dysk. But it would not be sooner available then about 1 -11\2 year . The > name, which may differ from the future commercial name is Idazoxan and > it is an adrenaline antagonist. A neuro on the French speaking list > > told that it was used in France already and the results seemed to be > positive. The litterature of this symptom is scarse and the cause is not > known, it is supposed to be related to neuromodulation..That means that > some chemical has a long lasting effect on the functioning of a > subsystem. I appreciate to be informed about the results of your > experiments. Can you tell why you expected this meds could be helpfull Here are some quotes of the explantion of the effects of GHB "GHB (Alcover). Gammahydroxybutrate, or Sodium Oxybate is a remarkable and diverse chemical, found naturally in every cell of the human body. At high doses, GHB blocks the path of the neurotransmitter Dopamine, but as the effects of GHB wear off there is a Dopamine rush. This rush has been described as an aphrodisiac as GHB creates a mild euphoric effect, (akin to alcohol intake). Also GHB is perhaps the most potent agonist of growth hormone. The use of GHB has been clinically shown to increase hGH levels by sixteen times baseline measurement within an hour. Too much GHB can place the user into a deep sleep, from which they can not be woken. Used correctly GHB can help libido, muscle mass, alcohol withdrawal and sleep. Only take GHB at night before bed, avoid any alcohol, also avoid use if you suffer from epilepsy, cardiovascular problems, severe hypertension or Cushings disease. Dosages are as follows; Alcohol withdrawal 150mg three times daily; Libido enhancement 500mg to 1000mg before sex; Sleep 750mg to 1500mg; Hormone Release 1000mg to 2500mg before bed. Doses are dependent upon sex [less for women) and bodyweight (less Kg less mg), build up doses slowly over days to find your requirement." The above is from an advert trying to sell GHB . I thought I had more on file but I dont . More can be found at http://www.paranoia.com/.../nootropics.html GHB has been used medically to combat the following symptoms 1) depression ( a PD symptom ) 2)muscle spasm in child birth ( PD muscle spasm ? ) 3 ) Alcoholic detoxification ( by this I understand that GHB stops the shackes when trying to come off alcohol . PD tremor ? ) 4) narcolepsy ( an inability to stay awake during the day ) GHB is supposed to help by giving a more intense and satisfying sleep . GHB is sold as a sex stimulant I believe the increase in libido can be attributable to a good nights sleep . Certainly the immediate effect of taking it is one of relaxation not sexual stimulation . I woke up the following morning feeling good with none of the usual stiffness . This in my view increases the libido . GHB has fallen into disrepute lately because of its use as a date rape drug . Mix it with alcohol and you can go into a coma (recoverable I believe ) . GHb is serious stuff . I get dyskinesia 3/4 hour after taking the first pill in the morning in a brief period between a PD reduced muscle function state and a normal muscle function state , and a much longer more intense period at the end of dosage going the opposite way in muscle function. Explaining everything in terms of dopamine , it wuold seem that dyskinesia is caused by a certain level of dopamine . Above this level no major PD symtoms . Below this level PD symtoms .I compare it to a car with a unbalanced wheel . It will produce violent vibrations only within a certain range of speeds . Either above or below this range and one is relatively okay . I purchased a small quantity of GHB to test if I could avoid dyskinesia by dropping my dopamine level quickly. It works . But I am no longer convinced by the explanation . I fail to see that if the main effect of GHB is a temporary suppression of dopamine in the brain , then how can it treat depression ( a PD symptom supposedly caused by a lack of dopamine long term) GHB is concentrated mainly in the Thalamus in the brain ( ringing of bells here ) . Its action is poorly understood . It was first used as a way of GABA crossing the blood/brain barrier . When I get my next batch I want to try the following experiments . 1) Since my body can act as a dopamine monitor ( PD has some uses ) I can establish whether GHB does temporarily depress dopamine levels and then cause the level to rise after 3 hours . This effect might be useful in extending the action time of the L-dopa cap. 2) My chief problem in taking a drug holiday is that after 3 days I get very depressed inspite of the fact that I can still function (although badly ) physicaly .I have become psychologicaly dependant on L-dopa . I will try GHB's reputed anti depressant effect to see if it helps me with a long drug holiday . Most drugs fade in their effect with time and use . How long does GHB's beneficial effects last? I am hoping that GHB will help with some of the side effects of L-dopa . But the case for the beneficial effects of GHB on PD is far from established . I dont want to build up hopes prematurely . I will post further on GHB when I complete the experiments . peace Alastair ( [log in to unmask] )