I have followed this discussion with little interest until Brenton and Kathryn's responses triggered me. I asked my wife Lisa about professional writing. She works in a health-related field in which she does a fair bit of writing. Initially she held that professional writing was writing that got published somewhere. She would include in-house manuals (she has produced several), but not advertising or promotional material. I asked her then if she would include a proposal for a training program that she was in the process of writing. She dithered because the proposal is for a program that will have a published manual. Was the proposal itself "professional"? She thought not. What then, I asked, of proposals such as those written in response to RFP's by government for say refitting a building? Yes, she would include those because the work that was to follow from it was work. Ah, I said, and the training program that you are designing won't be work? O.K, said Lisa, maybe I have to rethink my definition. Then, I mentioned Brenton's response. It reminded us of a social work course that we had both taken during university. There the prof. spent about 40% of the course explaining (defensively) why Social Work was a profession. Certainly, many, not just writers, are concerned with professional status. And why not? It typically means more power, more money, and more of those kind of parties. I hate those parties, but I'll take the money and the power if offered.:) Honestly, I think the issue becomes envy not professionalism. My brother's a doctor. I'm not. He has a sailboat, a windsurfer, expensive ski equipment (and the vacations to use them). I don't. He's in Ireland right now (not the exploding part). I'm not. Would I like to be? Would I like to have his toys? Sure, but my professional status--even as a PhD--doesn't equal his. So, I can't go so far. Universities are very concerned these days about their declining status in the eye of the public (witness the fiasco at ACCUTE this May where they debated --supposedly-- "The Future of English Studies and The Public Good", but actually whinged and whined about wanting an academic discourse as impenetrable as Neuroscience). I think much of this concern derives from a sense of being outstripped (read: outearned) by other professionals like lawyers and doctors. If universities were not being "underfunded" would we have such concern about things like public accountability, and the public good and the status of universities? I think not. At least, not from within the walls. Graham, I hope that when you teach this course, you allow for a critique of both words "professional" and "writing". Rob Irish *********************************************** Dr. Robert Irish Coordinator of Language Across the Curriculum Applied Science and Engineering University of Toronto 416.978.6708 http://www.ecf.toronto.edu/~writing/ **********************************************