Hi Hilary: I read your post with very deep interest and a heavy heart. It's been there, done that, my daughter was led away in handcuffs, because I could not control her. I wouldn't go to control but have her follow the house rules. She felt she didn't have to. She kept running away, sleeping with her boyfriend, hanging with a very bad crowd, skipping school, stealing (clothes, cars, money) she was a real pro. I could not catch up with her so I called the Police and they found her and arrested her. She was wild that night. Like a child possessed, not mine at all. I ended up with CPS (Child Protective Services) on my doorstep that night. I then had to defend myself. Try to find my 1st husband (On the road) to come home as we had a date in court. I told this man everything that was going on. About the time I got to the stolen car, he finally realized she was not an abused child but a child in need of services. All was fine until in court I told her she could not see the man she was sleeping with for a time of cooling off. She hit the ceiling, the counselor took her out and you could hear her yelling everywhere. We took her home she ran away. I told her boyfriend she has to come home. She decided she was going to get married (15) pregnant, angry defiant, she knows it all. Well, she got married, gave birth, got divorced, gave up custody, had at least 5 more babies don't know fathers. I have her number and will get her on the phone soon. I miss her very much, 1st born you know. She would not talk to me as I had given her some suggestions. But Hilary I didn't do this. I have another daughter younger, straight A's, didn't date until 16, apparently didn't have sex until 18. Doesn't drink, smoke has 2 steady jobs. Same problems in the family. But I refuse to let her use this as an excuse for her behavior. I can't explain it. No they shouldn't be in foster care but maybe they are using you and PD as a scapegoat. You are an effective parent. Looking like we're doing the slam dance in the Mosh Pit doesn't mean we are not effective. Hilary your a wonderful person, with this gigantic heart for everyone, I can't believe you don't have that for your kids. I agree PD has taken so much away. But not me, not my humor, or my love of people, pets, outdoors, food, etc. I am still me. PD is a pain in the butt, but it's my butt that has the pain. I will continue to fight until I'm probably laying on the floor with the 4-legged furry creatures licking my face, and wondering were are the treats. They do like grapes. Hon be mad, angry, impatient, frustrated whatever but don't beat yourself up over this. I saw tons of kids, parents whole and well and the kids are rotten. I don't mean rotten in a bad way but they know everything. and we're just old folk. Unless they want something then I become the best "Here Mom let me help you out of the car". Oh I'll walk you to the door." Usually it a kiss and see ya I finally get out and whoosh can even get my hand away from the car door. Well, you said you didn't mind if I left early. My heart goes out to you right now. We do the best we can with what we have. I wasn't give a manual were you? TTFN Gina Here is a bedtime hug just for you {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Hilary}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} I found out tonight that while I am cooking Salmon I can't flip them with this one spacula as they fly off. The cats were there as were the dogs. So were some people.