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Actually, after analyzing my reasons for disliking HMO's, I realize that they would probably not even exist, if not for employers who are always trying to balance budgets. So here they get a chance to save money, and distance themselves from liability too. The HMO takes the heat, if the patient dies or gets worse and sues. I agree doctors don't know about money, except they like getting plenty of it, and hospitals and drug companies aren't much different. If the laws that protect us from HMO abuses work, hopefully the problems will be solved, or maybe I am dreaming! You did make several powerful points, Bruce. I still hope I always have a choice not to join an HMO, but maybe they are not so bad, at least compared to no coverage at all! I don't suppose any of them will be hiring me to do their P.R. work! LOL Ken B