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> -----Original Message----- > From: Parkinson's Information Exchange > [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of janet paterson > Sent: Monday, November 16, 1998 4:44 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list PARKINSN > Subject: Re: i smell another rat > > > hi wendy > > At 21:51 1998/11/15 -0700, you wrote: > >I must also beg to differ once again with some of these > >"snake-oil" attacks on people's characters. Frankly, I > >do not include myself amongst any sort of list "police" > >groups, of any sort. > > i do, when i catch someone deliberately concealing their > financial interest > > >I am all for critical thinking and investigating all > >claims made here, but that means ALL claims made. > > whew! > you have more energy than me! > i only have time to dig into deliberately concealed financial interest > > >I do sense an overwhelming bias against alternative treatments > > you couldn't be more wrong, if you are referring to me; > see my prior messages 'let's get this straight' > > >and sometimes docile, almost mindless acceptance > >of ideas and treatments either proposed or endorsed > >by standard western medical experts. > > we do the best with the systems that > we the society have allowed or required to be put into place > > a doctor or a drug company or an aroma therapist > all have financial interest in their work, > granted > and there's nothing wrong with that > as long as is not deliberately concealed financial interest > > >No one seems to go after any of the traditional western MD's > >or pharmaceutical companies with the same zealousness reserved > >for those who ideas or proposed treatments are more on the > >fringe. I have seen lists of drugs posted here many times, sometimes > >with info making it clear that there's a profit motive involved, > >sometimes not. I do not think either side's motives are any more > >nor any less good/bad or selfish/unselfish. > > we have many list-members with declared financial interests > in their work as it relates to pd or to other areas > i prefer the honest approach, myself > > >Has anyone stopped to consider that maybe some of these > >people got into the promotion of certain products for profit, > >only after having used them themselves, or having seen them > >used for others that they know. > > i certainly stop and consider [usually long and hard] > before i send in any message here > > >Personally, I think combining the ability to make some money, > >ALONG WITH a product in which one believes completely, is a > >wonderful combination. > > yep, nothing better! > i think it's called answering your call > or something like that > > >For instance, down the road, I've thought of also combining > >my environmental interests with a business. That might include > >alternatives to traditional pest control, alternative medicines, > >nutritional supplements, etc. > > go for it! > > >I would be VERY offended, to say the least, if perhaps I were > >able to cure myself of PD via nutritional supplements and diet, > >and then had people attacking my character and motives later if > >I then decided to share this which had worked for me with others > >for a profit. If I found a vitamin/herb treatment program that > >worked for me, I'd love to just give it away, but since I'm not > >Bill Gates, I could hardly afford to do that. Thus self-interest > >comes into play too out of necessity. People should make their > >profit-making intentions clear, I agree. To be consistent then, > >there should also be alot more policing of the doctors, drug > >companies, and ALL OTHER groups who post here. > > i don't follow your logic here > > if a doctor or drug company or dietician or pharmacist have posted here > without deliberately concealing their financial interest > why should they be 'policed'? > > >I also take issue that when there are possible personal/corporate > >gains to be made on something alternative, that self-interest > >automatically also confers upon the product the label of snake-oil. > >Every drug or treatment ever discussed here would fall into that > >category, if profit alone is the criteria. > > this is an absolutely nonsensical idea, i agree with you! > again, see my 'let's get this straight' messages > > >Again, as I said above, and on an earlier post, not only might > >this person truly believe in this product due to personal > >experience, but also, they may have some very altruistic > >plans for those profits. Any business that I undertake > >would be something that was in line with my personal interests > >/issues, and also the profits I received would not only support > >me, but also help me to even further support those same issues. > > absolutely! > if you had such a business > and acted on your ideals in such a way > i believe that you'd sing your sales pitch from the rooftops > and would not deliberately conceal your financial interest > > >So, let's all maintain both critical and open > >minds. They are not mutually exclusive. > > my mind is always open and my mind is always critical > it's the only way i can function > > >There are also ways to challenge someone without attacking > >their integrity and motives, especially prematurely. > > "once bitten, twice shy" = > once or twice or thrice scammed by deliberately dishonest behaviour > = extra sensitive, and so far, extra accurate, radar for me; > not pre-mature here at all in my analysis > > >Let's also make sure this critical analysis and > >investigation is applied equally all-around. > > again, if you have the energy, go for it! > i can only drum up the energy to deal with the things that 'speak' to me, > like dishonesty > > >And finally, let's avoid reducing issues > >to cliches like "snake-oil", etc. > > the 'issue' here is deliberately concealed financial interest > "if the shoe fits..." > > janet Okay, Janet, I've had my fill of you! The statements you are making about me are false and liabelous. If indeed, you did honestly investigate my web page, and you have anything more than a "pea-brain," your conclusions would have been otherwise. Just reading my Bio should have been enough to disuade this insanity on your part. Perhaps it is YOU that is the Rat! Maybe you saw "Zen Buddhist" on my page and suffer from a case of Religous Prejudice, or perhaps you are being paid by the Pharmaceutical Companies to nip any natural alternatives in the bud. What proof do you have regarding my motives? NONE! Does anything on my page suggest the use of Aromatherapy for Medicinal Purposes? NO! Let me give you another piece of information. I do have Sandalwood, even though my page says I don't. In fact, I have a rather large quanity of Sandalwood (Over 2 Kilos) Not only do I have a large quanity of Sandalwood, but it is extremely high grade Mysor Sandalwood. It was brought to me over three years ago by some friends who are in the Jewel trade from India. I never know when they will show up. I used to get some every year. It's been three years this time. Now let me give you a little education in Sandalwood since you are obviously painfully ignorant on the matter. It takes a hundred years for a tree to produce oil. The Indian government is cracking down on exports and the price of "true" Mysor Sandalwood is escalating dramatically. But that's not the whole story: Sandalwood is one of those oils which improves with age. This means it increases in value. In one more year, mine will reach the classification of "aged" sandalwood and will quadruple in value, at which time I will sell it to a friend who makes natural perfumes and make a tidy profit (considering it has already tripled in value since I bought it, and now it will be four times that) The profit in Sandalwood is not selling it to some bozo like you! And since I'm on a tear, let me enlighten you on a couple of other things. If you had read my bio you may have also noticed that I'm a consultant in the HVAC & Indoor Air Quality field. Since I've subscribed to this list I've seen virtually nothing on this subject. Do you know what an MSD sheet is? Have you checked out your home and personal products using an MSD sheet to check for Neuro-toxins. Have you read the EPA reports on home toxins and Indoor Air Quality? Not one MD ever told me Nutra-sweet was suspected as causing liver damage, nor did they indicate Phenols or Coumarins were damaging to the liver. Guess who makes Nutra Sweet?Did you know, or did your doctor ever tell you that the EPA considers your home to have poorer Air Quality than the outdoor air in Los Angeles? Did he/she suggest you avoid Ketones like Rosemary which are Neuro-toxins? Does he/she know what an MSD sheet is? You would be amazed at what you can find on an MSD sheet. I'll give you an example. I had a friend in Oklahoma City who ran a sign company that used Xylene in the process. His dad died at a young age from a heart condition. When I pulled his MSD sheets I found Xylene caused heart problems. He went into complete denial about getting rid of the stuff. "We've been working around this for years and haven't had a problem" His dad died of a heart condition, he's looking straight at a government mandated report that clearly states the product causes heart disease and he won't make the connection. Did his father's MD ever tell him to investigate the toxins he was using in his home or buisness? NO! Is it just MD's? No, I had a friend who is a Chinese Doctor and she recommended an herb for my liver. I checked it out and found it causes liver damage. Just because something's "Natural" doesn't mean it's good for you, or that it's not harmful. If I find out I am coming down with Parkinson's you better believe I'm going to stay away from Pines and pine products. BTW: Have you ever known a pharmaceutical representative, and do you know about the way they work with the MD's? Is the medicine you're taking based on a fishing trip to Canada? You do realize the same people who are making your medicine are the ones who are putting neuro-toxics in your home and personal products? But you spend your time worrying about the "snake oil salesman" You have a perfect right to be a moron! David