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hi charlie At 20:00 1998/12/18 -0600, you wrote, in part: >Of course you have a right to an opinion and to express >it but when you respond so strongly you intimidate and >cut off debate. i don't know how my response was interpreted as intimidating it certainly wasn't intended as such i try hard not to use judgmental language or even ideas i welcome exchanges of ideas and even agruments >...It is just that action when you see something that you >perceive as a problem is just as caring as protecting the >list from perceived attack. I am not attacking so please >don't respond like I am. i admit i reacted emotionally to your header "houston -er toronto we have a problem" [which i saw as declaring an opinion as a hard fact] but i tried not to let it influence my later response >The reason I used the anecdote about a member feeling >like he would be crucified was the tone of your reply. >Your lead-off with asking me - reminding everyone-- >that - I had been away from the list and then questioned >my motivations. i asked you why you left and why you came back i don't see how there was any 'tone' to be interpreted; it was almost a rhetorical question; i answered it in the next line i intended nothing personal or disparaging to you it was a reference to you and to several other members who recently have announced their return after a hiatus people do leave the list and do come back for whatever reasons the fact of someone leaving doesn't necessarily imply that they have 'been driven away' why make that assumption? is sustained and constant growth of the list our only measure of 'success'? why do we have to be 'successful' anyway? >You don't understand why dissatisfaction comes up every few >months maybe because little has been done to address the problem. not necessarily there are frequent hints and tips on e-mail management which have been getting more sophisticated as time goes on imho >It becomes" survival of the chattiest" and those who don't like >it either become inactive or vote with their feet and are gone. i see other options i don't see it as survival of the chattiest i see it as us using the list as an outlet when we need one or not if there is chit-chat going on that i'm not interested in i just ignore it and delete it no sweat the people commplaining about list volume and/or quality cause as much 'irrelevant' e-mail as the 'chatters' in my opinion but if i can ignore one i can ignore the other so maybe that's what i should have done here >... I have to say that it is my observation that the level >and relevance of the discussions on list has IN MY OPINION >as well as that of some very respected contributors has >deteriorated significantly. I see the list as an organism >which can either grow (in quality as well as quantity), >stagnate, or wither and die. Its our choice. i don't see the possibilities as so limited i have seen a great deal of growth and maturity in this list over the past three years and can't see why it wouldn't continue some weeks the 'conversation' is profound some weeks it is frivolous some weeks it is angry some weeks it is compassionate i can't see it as something to be controlled or 'improved' i can only see it as access to a free 'microphone' if you will provided by a generous spirit whose work sometimes seems to be forgotten or taken for granted i guess i feel that it is barb's prerogative to decide whether and how the list might need to be changed it's not up to me to tell you how to respond to this list and it's not up to you to tell me how to respond to this list but carry this concept any further and we have no conversations or discussions at all or do we? janet janet paterson - 51 now /41 dx /37 onset - almonte/ontario/canada [log in to unmask]