Janet wrote in part: janet{ therefore vocal = spunky unvocal = unspunky >I do not do well at expressing myself. Things sort of run >around in my head & I can't quite get them to come out my >fingertips. I hope you can understand what I am trying to >say. I do care how you feel. i can't tell you how much this means to me i truly appreciate your concern maybe your own worries about anger rose to the fore when i showed some anger of my own? we women have been discouraged from assertiveness and aggressiveness for so long that anger can seem like a foreign language or something that is only dished out by others anger is not 'bad' per se but it needs to be carefully monitored as to its origins }janet assertiveness is spunky in my definitions/labels/glossary - and is recommended by David Burns, Bob Alberti (book titled "Your Perfect Right") [Dr Bob is coincidentally co-grandparent of 3 of my step-grandchildren], Laura Schlesinger, and myself - as well as Janet. aggressiveness is not recommended by many other than advocates of war or contestants in "sports". i do not have much positive in thought or feeling regarding aggression. it seems to me that 'acting out' anger is aggression. choosing to exhibit dominance amongst males is not species limited - except for numerous exceptions in both the size and strength as well as wit and cunning abstracts of reality. assertiveness is civilized pacific (peaceful) non-violent expression of anger - with expression of the degree of feeling angry about random bad luck (chance event) - or unfair action by another or a group. for instance, i am asserting that change is long overdue to stop the wrong/unethical subsidizing of the highest-payment recipients by the federal government non-sane "COLA" mis-calculation. This wage-price spiral is not logical and the escalation of the bases when constant basis is the correct mathematics has diverged incomes greatly, 'legalized' usurious incomes by the powerful - and worsened the lot of the majority for circa 30 years! if you wish to learn more, there is much in my web site. my anger about this injustice is not eating away at my insides. it is of major importance (in my notsohumble opinion) and is my crusade to lobby for reform - along with the crusade to stimulate the research to find the causes and the cures for neurodegenerative diseases. janet, your defense against salesmen is aggressive in part. this may be unladylike or some other labeling from the parent in some psyches (parent, adult, child transactional analysis paradigm or analogy). some will not agree to the hypothesis that the best defense might be offense. i feel able to guess that you do not like subterfuge - or hate being conned (sharing this with myself and most of humanity). spunky says stay spunky (you may wish to undistort "spunky=vocal" to become "spunky=messaging" if you slack off sending messages, i will express my concern about my cyber-sis Ron Vetter 1936, '84 PD dz [log in to unmask] http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/~rfvetter