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Ivan wrote: > So Bob, I am not bragging. I am not complaining. I am just talking to > you. It's too bad you can't seem to accept me as I am. I am proud to be > gay, and share it joyously, as other Listmembers share their joys, > whatever they might be. I have stayed out of this controversy but feel that I need to make a comment here. It is not directed at Ivan or anyone else individually. It deals with the concept of being "proud" (see above about being "proud to be gay"). It doesn't make any sense to me to be "proud" to be gay, any more that I should feel "proud" at being heterosexual. Being gay or "straight" is not something we *acquire*; for most of us (there are some exceptions), it is the way we were born. I think that "pride" can be very destructive. I hope that Ivan does not decide to leave the List. Best, Bob *********************************** ROBERT A. FINK, M. D., F.A.C.S. Neurological Surgery 2500 Milvia Street Suite 222 Berkeley, CA 94704-2636 USA Phone: (510) 849-2555 FAX: (510) 849-2557 WWW: <http://www.dovecom.com/rafink/> mailto:[log in to unmask] "Ex Tristitia Virtus" ***********************************