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Ken,

This couldn't have been said any better.  I agree.  The one thing I would
like to add is when life is all said and done and we are at the end of our
road, whether we have a cure or not, in my heart of hearts if I am to be
remembered for anything, or remembered for being a part of anything I would
like for it to be that I was a part of building people up or a situation up,
not tearing people down.  We waste valuable energy tearing people down.  Our
common goal should be to end this race in better shape than what we began it
in, whether we win or lose.

Just another opinion, and
thankful for the List and what makes up the list,
Sandra
-----Original Message-----
From: KEn Becker <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 12:51 AM
Subject: Judith/G-d/Ivan, very serious


>This will be as brief as possible, I am tired after reading over 100 posts.
I
>hope Judith reconsiders, and stays on the list.  I understand her
frustration.
>The topic of religion is discussed on the list every so often. I have to
>disagree, probably for the first time ever, with Barb Mallut!
>I believe that we shouldn't  limit the right to discuss one's faith, or
even
>the lack of it, on the list. HOWEVER, it is so important for everyone to
>realize that since even people who SHARE a particular belief do not always
>agree on the details, it can get very uncomfortable for EVERYONE, when the
>discussion of religion becomes the focus of what is posted to the list.
This
>is not meant to be censorship, just consideration for each other.  For the
>record I am Jewish, I am happy that I am, but I respect everyone else's
right
>to their beliefs, and will be happy to hear about them, in private posts.
It
>can be very interesting to learn about how other's worship, within reason,
and
>with mutual respect.
>        Now to our friend Ivan! I can say a lot of great things about Ivan,
and he
>probably needs to hear them now.  A few people said things about him, which
>are not complimentary, but are not necessarily untrue either.  My
suggestion
>to Ivan, and I hope he is reading this!  Is to drop the whole thing with
the
>NPF. Not because he is wrong,  but because it will be better for HIM to let
it
>go.  The doctor, or someone on his staff screwed up, but it was not done
out
>of hatred, or gay bashing, or on purpose. Things happen. Sometimes very
>terrible things happen to the nicest people.  After trying to fix a
problem,
>if it does not respond, it really is better to go on to other things and
try
>to forgive, or at least forget.  Ivan, if you spent the time you have put
into
>your campaign against the NPF, doing even menial labor, you probably could
>have made back triple the money you lost.  You could say you had a "bad
>vacation" in Miami. You could say you spent some time with your father, and
it
>cost more than it should have.  You could just try to block the whole
>experience form your mind, as if it were a bad dream.   It is haunting you,
>and ruining your life, by turning away people who really want to help you.
>Now I will drop that subject.  Ivan has lived with more problems than many
>people, including PD, loneliness when he really needs to have people with
him,
>a  fire which killed his cat, and leveled his home, a very limited income,
>loss of his ability to do a job that he was probably very good at.  He has
>found and lost lovers, friends, and even been turned away by his family.  I
am
>sure he knows he has his moods, and says things  that turn people away when
he
>needs them the most. I blame PD for that, it is a part of the package of
>symptoms.
> Okay, so why should we care? Ivan  fights for others, even when he is down
on
>his "luck".(if any!)  He sees beauty in simple things like a warm fire, a
>flower, a bird, a cloud.  He can take criticism and try to improve, or at
>least takes the time to explain why he did something wrong. He has a memory
>for details and an ability to analyze situations and can accomplish great
>deeds.  He is like the fighter who is down for the count and jumps up and
>keeps fighting when when everyone thinks it is all over.  He is tenacious.
He
>is not ashamed to admit he salvages from trash, to survive. We should all
be
>ashamed that he should need to, in a country like the USA!   And why do
people
>throw away things that someone else can use? Shame on THEM!  He has been
>turned down by Rabbis and Priests, when seeking help, hopefully in a nice
way,
>but he still walked away empty handed.
>Ivan is not about to give up, and we should not let him.  He has said
things
>that hurt, or insulted some of those who have tried to help him, but I
don't
>think he meant to do that.  If apologies are in order, I am pretty sure
they
>will come.
>Let's ALL try to focus on PD, the REAL enemy.  Until the cure is found, we
>should spend as much time spreading the knowledge on the list, and if time
>must be "wasted", use it to entertain, or comfort those who need it. When
>criticism is earned by a listmember,  either let it go, or take it to
private
>email, unless making it public will help others. Forgive the length of this
>post, but I knew these things needed to be said.  Ken B