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Hi Janet, I have to disagree with you about the analogy of being invited to dinner and criticizing the list . I see us as a family all with different personalities needs and desires. What you are saying if this is true is let us argue politics, pigs or whatever but don't comment on the process- the hidden rules which are operative.. I think we both agree that the list will not survive as more than a place to play and chat if opinion is censored or so strongly discouraged that people are discouraged from posting. But it will also be in danger if we are discouraged from commenting on the list process as we see it. We then become a pseudomutual family like a 50's sitcom where everything is perfect on the outside but under the surface mom hates dad, dad is screwing with his secretary, the kids are alcoholic because the family is not being real with each other. We in the past have clashed on this issue and never resolved it. I think that it is necessary that people not be discouraged from stating their displeasure with the list. If you don't want any rules than so be it (or minimal rules such as no commercial soliciting and no personal attacks). But I think the list process should be fair game. If enough people are fed up with pigs then the subject will die. But choosing not to act is as powerful as acting. Choosing not to protest is a tacit vote to keep on the same subject until it runs out of steam (as I have chosen with pigs). As the list co-leader your opinion is magnified significantly kind of like Napoleon in Animal Farm (a pig!!). " Some animals are more equal than others." So your words are heard loud and clear. I think that you set the unwritten rules with your considerable writing talents and the esteem people hold you in. The prime directive becomes "Don't criticize the list. "Now with your new position that is strengthened even more. Maybe the beer is warm and the chili is cold because mom is tired of giving so many dinners for the ungrateful father. We will never know if we don't complain (as a family member should but a guest shouldn't). Are the complainers guests or are they family members? If they are part of the family then they have a right and perhaps even a duty to complain if they are guests they should be polite and suffer in silence and leave- smiling but dissatisfied. Charlie janet paterson wrote: > hi all > > i am all for robust and frank exchanges of ideas and opinions > about pd topics and about non pd topics > about menopause and about orgasms > about perry como and about pigs > > but > > it seems to me that complaining about this list > and the way it functions or doesn't function > or the way it's supposed to be > or the way it ought to be > is akin to > being invited to my house for dinner > and complaining that the beer isn't cold enough > and the chili isn't hot enough > and why on earth did you make bread pudding > and why is the coffee taking so long > and what in heck made you invite the jones' of all people > > the list is the way it is > because the host-owner wants it that way > > why is this so obvious to me > and seemingly so obscure to so many others? > > now, > who wants to help with the dishes? > > janet > > janet paterson > 52 now / 41 dx / 37 onset > snail-mail: PO Box 171 Almonte Ontario K0A 1A0 Canada > website: a new voice <http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Village/6263/> > e-mail: <[log in to unmask]> -- ****************************************************************************************** Charles T. Meyer, M.D. Middleton (Madison), Wisconsin [log in to unmask] ******************************************************************************************