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In a message dated 9/17/99 9:41:59 PM Central Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes: << But aren't there other sources of embryos or fetal tissue, including spontaneous abortion and as a byproduct of infertility treatments? >> Art, Perhaps as you say, it would e possible to use the left over embryos of infertility treatment for this purpose. I know it has been mentioned as a source for stem cells. Fetal tissue from spontaneous abortion, etc: I have a little knowledge of the subject and it's a disappointing idea. Spontaneously aborted and ectopic (out of place- not in the uterus) embryos have been tried and found wanting. These tissues have been suggested as the source of starting material for almost a decade. As I understand it, to grow a cell line requires lots of experimentation on high quality tissue. Such tissue is usually damaged or otherwise not right. Often, that is why it was ectopic or spontaneously aborted in the first place. What is (a.k.a. "reality")? A controlling fact is that in the United States, abortion -even the abomination of "partial birth abortion"- is almost everywhere legal and happens. Opponents don't seem to be able to get even that banned. Assume that a given legal abortion is murder under "a higher law." "Why should that murdered body be treated as waste?" is a separate question. My answer is "To treat it as waste accomplishes no good and seems to me like a double insult to that life." Dr Art Kaufmann, as sensitive a Jew as exists on the face of this earth, used anatomical pictures made possible by Nazi vivisection of Jews (including children) to teach his anatomy class. His attitude was: these pictures have been made available to you at a terrible price. Now it is your responsibility to learn from them. IMHO At a minimum, something similar should be applied to he use of embryos in research or treatment of disease. Best, WHH