Right on carole you have seen the pit as I have too .. isnt it odd that
those who usually write about this condition have no idea how it is to be
that way?  When I was diagnosed, the difference between depression and *
being blue* was described to me as this:  Take the worst time or day you
have ever had and magnify this by 1000 that is close to clinical depression.



----- Original Message -----
From: Carole Hercun <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: NEWS: Viewing Depression as Tool for Survival


> Hi janet marie: Do you think any of the people quoted here
> have ever traveled the nine circles leading to the Hell  of
> full-blown Clinical Depression? Been there, done that. And
> it takes more than happy thoughts and good intentions to
> drag you back to any semblance of sanity. Sure, one's
> environment, stressors, etc. affect depression, but the
> point they're missing is that it DOESN'T MATTER what caused
> the condition, what you are treating is a biological
> illness, and while psychotherapy is enlightening and
> productive (this is the testimony of a long time psych
> nurse AND the recipient of more years of therapy than I
> care to divulge), the cure involves medication. Depression
> IS NOT comparable to diarrhea. It is insane not to treat it
> when we have the cure.
>                           Carole
> --- janet marie paterson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > February 1, 2000
> >
> > Viewing Depression as Tool for Survival
> >
> > The case, Dr. Randolph M. Nesse said, does not fit tidily
> > with the view that depression is only a matter of
> > disordered brain chemicals:
> >
> > A woman sought help from a psychiatric clinic because she
> > was desperately depressed. She had dedicated five years
> > to becoming a professional musician, despite her
> > teachers' admonitions that she lacked the talent to
> > succeed. She persisted, the woman said, because it was
> > her mother's dream for her.
> >
> > The psychiatrists at the clinic treated her with a
> > variety of antidepressant medications and with
> > psychotherapy. Nothing helped. But when, one day, the
> > woman reached a decision, giving up music in favor of a
> > career more suited to her abilities, her depression
> > lifted.
> >
> > Dr. Nesse, director of the Evolution and Human Adaptation
> > program at the University of Michigan's Institute for
> > Social Research, collects many such cases (the details
> > are altered to protect patients' identities) because he
> > believes they offer clues to a deeper understanding of
> > depression.
> >
> > In a recent article in the journal Archives of General
> > Psychiatry, Dr. Nesse argued that while some forms of
> > depression were clearly a result of genetic vulnerability
> > and brain abnormality, others might have their roots in
> > evolutionary history.
> >
> > Darwinian theory holds that evolution selects for
> > fitness: organisms with traits that promote survival or
> > reproduction pass on their genes; organisms without such
> > traits die off.
> >
> > Depression may have developed, Dr. Nesse suggested, as a
> > useful response to situations in which a desired goal is
> > unattainable, or, as he has put it, "when one of life's
> > path peters out into the woods."
> >
> > Locked in pursuit of the impossible, it makes sense for
> > an animal to hunker down, take stock and figure out what
> > to do next, Dr. Nesse said. In some cases, depression may
> > help a person disengage from what has proved a hopeless
> > effort; in other cases, it may protect the person from
> > jumping ship too rashly, perhaps landing in even less
> > hospitable seas.
> >
> > "If I had to put my position in a nutshell," he said,
> > "I'd say that mood exists to regulate investment
> > strategies, so that we spend more time on things that
> > work, and less time on things that don't."
> >
> > In some respects, Dr. Nesse's conception echoes that of
> > the psychoanalyst Dr. Emmy Gut. In a 1989 book
> > "Productive and Unproductive Depression" (Basic Books),
> > Dr. Gut described, among other cases, the experience of a
> > biochemist, Albert, who frequently became depressed when
> > a research strategy he was pursuing went nowhere. When
> > the feelings of despair passed, he said, he saw "an
> > entirely different way to tackle the problem, or else, I
> > have recognized that the project was unrealistic."
> >
> > In an interview, Dr. Gut, who lives in Sweden, said: "I
> > think that depression is a normal mechanism. It's an
> > attempt toward adaptation to a problem."
> >
> > Dr. Nesse and Dr. Gut are not the first to ponder what
> > evolutionary function depression -- and its close
> > relative, sadness or low mood -- might serve. Thinkers
> > from Schopenhauer to Freud have offered their views. Over
> > the years, scientists have speculated variously that
> > depression represents a plea for help, a strategy for
> > manipulating others into providing resources, a signal of
> > submission or yielding in conflict, or a way to conserve
> > an organism's energy and resources in hard times.
> >
> > Other investigators see no point in viewing depression as
> > anything other than a malfunction of brain chemicals.
> >
> > Dr. Nesse, however, is one of a growing number of
> > scientists who over the past decade have systematically
> > tried to bring a Darwinian perspective to medicine,
> > hoping to learn more about how evolution has shaped
> > humans' vulnerability to disease.
> >
> > The approach is yielding a richer understanding of
> > illness, and in particular, is helping scientists
> > distinguish between diseases and medical conditions that
> > developed as defenses against other more serious threats
> > to survival.
> >
> > Coughing, for example, is not a disease in itself but is
> > the body's attempt to rid itself of bacteria in the
> > lungs. Diarrhea and vomiting, though unpleasant, also
> > serve as defenses, evolving as ways to evade danger, and
> > thus to preserve fitness. And the ability to feel pain is
> > essential for an organism's survival. "People who are
> > born without any capacity to feel pain are usually dead
> > by early adulthood," Dr. Nesse said.
> >
> > Similarly, emotions like anxiety, fear and depression can
> > be viewed as defensive strategies. Such defenses make
> > sense, Dr. Nesse noted, because they have a low cost,
> > especially when compared with their potential for
> > protection. Vomiting, for instance, involves only the
> > loss of few hundred calories, but might save an animal's
> > life if the substance ingested is poisonous. In the same
> > way, being frightened and anxious when no threat exists
> > is a small price to pay for the readiness to fight or
> > flee when true danger looms. Yet these tactics also
> > sometimes go awry, and illness results: chronic pain
> > syndromes or panic attacks, for example.
> >
> > Dr. Nesse believes the need to gain a deeper
> > understanding of what purpose depression might serve is
> > especially pressing at a time when the illness is so
> > prevalent. Surveys indicate that 10 percent of Americans
> > suffer from clinical depression; millions more endure a
> > darkness that is not severe enough to earn a diagnosis
> > but still interferes with their lives.
> >
> > Researchers have also found that the rates of depression
> > have increased in people born after World War II.
> >
> > "The irony," Dr. Nesse said, "is that here we have
> > finally created a society where not many people are
> > hungry, we stay warm, we can take baths, we can travel
> > and have relative freedom, and yet so many people are so
> > miserable."
> >
> > One thing that has changed over the eons is the increased
> > pressure people feel to set ever larger goals. Ancestral
> > hominids may have striven to pick enough berries to last
> > for a week; modern humans want to look like supermodels,
> > make a million dollars in the stock market or produce
> > flawless children.
> >
> > In shaping his ideas, Dr. Nesse has drawn upon the work
> > of psychologists like Dr. Eric Klinger, at the University
> > of Minnesota, who studies how people become committed to
> > goals, and how they reach those goals or abandon them.
> >
> > Dr. Klinger's studies indicate that depression plays a
> > crucial role in the process of disengaging from a goal.
> > To illustrate this, he uses the analogy of a soda
> > machine. "You put your 75 cents into the machine and
> > nothing happens," he said. "Then you go through a series
> > of phases: your behavior gets more invigorated, you pay
> > more attention to the signs, you pull on levers, you put
> > in more change. If it still doesn't work you may start to
> > rough up the machine. But at some point," he said, "you
> > walk away, feeling down, feeling disappointed. It's a
> > minor depression."
> >
> > The fact that depression sets in after someone is
> > prepared to suffer a failure or a loss, Dr. Klinger said,
> > is important. "It slows you down, and makes you take your
> > bearings," he said, "and at the same time it's very
> > unpleasant, so that people are not going to be attracted
> > to giving up quickly."
> >
> > Dr. Nesse believes there are many varieties of
> > depression, not all of them captured by official
> > diagnostic categories. An evolutionary view, he and
> > others hope, might encourage a broader, more nuanced
> > search for treatments.
> >
> > For instance, if depression is a defense, it might not
> > always make sense to block its defensive properties with
> > medication. When drugs are used to treat chronic diarrhea
> > caused by the shigella bacteria, he noted, complications
> > often result.
> >
> > "For my money," said Dr. Paul Gilbert, a psychologist at
> > the University of Derby in England, who has written on
> > depression and evolution, "the key thing really is
> > recognition that the environment is key to many of these
> > disorders. And if you really want to affect depression,
> > it's nice to have therapies that work, and it's nice to
> > have drugs that work. But do we really want a society
> > where we drive everyone mad and then give them drugs to
> > get them out of it?"
> >
> >
> > By Erica Goode
> > Copyright 2000 The New York Times Company
> >
> > janet paterson
> > 52 now / 41 dx / 37 onset
> > a new voice: http://www.geocities.com/janet313/
> > 613 256 8340 PO Box 171 Almonte Ontario Canada K0A 1A0
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
> http://im.yahoo.com
>