Hi
    I must have missed Bob's letter that he was leaving and also the reasons
behind his decision to do so.  Never the less, I am sure he will be missed,
even though I did not agree with him or his mode of response to me in a
couple of issues. When I was talking about ayurvedic medicine and about
taking folic acid as a supplement, he came on vehemently against it and
myself personally. This was uncalled for. I am not the one who is practicing
ayurvedic medicine; I am just a patient who is looking out for escaping the
miseries of PD. But, he did not spare any effort to kill the messenger.
    Folic acid supplement is recommended by a lot of nutrition experts
including Dr. Weil. It is very important to maintain low levels of
homocystiene in our blood, which, if I remember right, is elevated in
patients taking sinemet. He downright called me an idiot for stating that I
was taking folic acid supplement. He stopped abusing me only when I sent him
some references.
    But, that does not mean we can afford to lose an MD from our columns.
    But then, we have to learn to live without him, I guess.
    Raj
****************

----- Original Message -----
From: Charles T. Meyer <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: Farewell


> THIS IS A SAD  DAY FOR THE LIST.  Bob Fink has announced that he is
> leaving us and there has been no comment on his letter.   In addition
> John  Cottingham and  Barb Patterson  have remained silent on the
> issue.  To lose  such  a valued member of the group-  a neurosurgeon
> and  possibly the only practicing MD remaining on the list is indeed our
> great loss. And especially  I think, that all it would have taken is an
> apology  to cut this off.   Now the ugly specter of censorship hias
> reared its head I am fearful that it will continue with others.  John
> Cottingham,  I think you are in error by not apologizing to Bob and Bob
> while I think you are right to demand an apology rather than Censorship
> aren't you taking it a little far by contacting the Board of trustees of
> the  Uof T and threatening  a lawsuit for defamation?
>
> Bob and I have disagreed about many things but I have found him to be
> thoughtful and courteous and respectful of my point of view.  John and
> Barb and I have agreed on most things but I think you are dead wrong on
> this one. I can understand that you wish to keep controversy on an
> intellectual basis rather than a personal one and protect the list but
> aren't the eggs for the omelet already broken?  Bob is leaving the list
> and while I don't intend to leave I will if censorship continues.. I
> think that is what happens when censorship occurs- more and more people
> give up contributing and the threads become less and less relevant.
>
> The issues of stem cells and abortion have been the major area where Bob
> and I part company.  The issue of when human life begins is what it all
> boils down to.  Bob feels that all life regardless of stage or semblance
> of humanity is sacred and even though it is growing inside of someone
> else it is the moral equivalent of murder to terminate a life no matter
> how primitive .  I rationalize this by stating that it more complex than
> that and that and in making  the choice to have an abortion one must
> take into account the rights of the mother and the circumstances  the
> child will be born into.  Nonetheless  if I thought that feeling
> thinking human beings were being killed I would feel it necessary to
> take action to prevent it. as would most of you (I hope).  It comes down
> to what we are raised to believe , religion  if I can mention that here
> (without censorship)- and how literally one takes the Bible. This is a
> sensitive area and will not be settled by any legislation or court
> rulings. With the country being split close to 50-50 neither side will
> convince the other especially since the genie is out of the bottle now
> and won't be stuffed back in.  Bob -  if you want widespread civil
> disobedience and ignoring of a law along with the tragedy of botched
> abortions you will see a lot of illegal abortion drugs and abortions
> being performed just try and  pass this one
>
> Stem cells I think are quite a different matter since they do not have a
> chance of becoming human beings (since they come from IVF)   I feel that
> their potential for the relief of suffering and lack of we ever
> potential humanity should make all but the most avid right to lifer take
> pause.  Bob, I have a great deal more respect for you and your positions
> because you at least considered the difference between abortion and stem
> cell research.
>
> Bob,  I wish that you would consider staying with the List but I
> understand if you don't. Please keep in touch with me and others who
> value your opinions.
>
> Charlie
> Charles T. Meyer, MD
> Middleton, WI
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Robert A. Fink, M. D. wrote:
>
> >I have waited for a number of weeks, this to see if there would be any
> >"retreat" on the part of the "Administration" of the Parkinsn List, but
there
> >has been none.  Similarly, my letter of protest to the Academic Council
of the
> >University of Toronto (which hosts the List), has gone unanswered.
> >Therefore, what follows will be my final post to the List (assuming that
it isn't
> >censored when it comes under "review", the status which I have been
placed
> >in by Barbara Patterson).
> >
> >This issue began over the discussion of stem cells and the ethics related
to
> >such.  This matter is no longer the focus of the situation.  The
electorate of the
> >USA has, by its majority decision to re-elect President Bush, chosen its
> >national course over the next four years.  My own state, California,
passed
> >Proposition 71 (which I opposed), which has allocated a large sum of
money
> >(from tax revenues) *mandated* to go for stem cell research; money which
> >will be diverted from other health-related issues, such as care for the
> >underinsured or uninsured population of California.  The voters of
California
> >have chosen their priorities and will, in my opinion, eventually regret
their
> >choice.
> >
> >The issue which has resulted in my decision to remove myself from this
List
> >is the fact that, back in September, John Cottingham, a co-owner of the
> >Parkinsn List, sent a public message which said:
> >
> >"Enough has been said about abortion, legal cases and when life begins.
> >It's humorous really that one of the lists' most vehement proponents to
> >'Right to Life' also collects fees for removing organs from those on life
> >support. Never get between someones 'public' persona and their
livelihood."
> >
> >This was after I, in response to a question raised by another Listmember
as to
> >whether I supported organ donation, replied that I had indeed, worked
with
> >families of brain-dead individuals in order to help other families which
> >needed organs for transplant purposes.  To post words such as quoted
above
> >in a public forum is the worst form of slander.
> >
> >When I persisted in demanding a *public* apology, Barbara's response was
to
> >offer to "chat" on MSN Messenger (I do not use such services because they
> >are virus-prone and attract Spam), and when I continued to ask for that
> >apology, Barbara placed me "on review" (meaning that all of my posts
would
> >be "censored" before they are released to the List.  Since that action, I
have
> >not posted any messages to the Parkinsn List, as I will not participate
in a
> >"censored" List as a matter of principle.
> >
> >During the time that I have been a member of this List (I think that it
has been
> >about 10 years), I have seen much vitriol dispensed.  In the months
before the
> >recently-completed USA electoral process, there had been many nasty and
> >disrespectful postings regarding our president, and other governmental
> >officials by Listmembers who disagree with governmental policies.  The
> >personal attacks by several individuals on the List (you know who you
are)
> >have continued even until now (when the electoral decision is history),
and
> >yet, such people have not been placed "on review".  Similarly, other
> >Listmembers, including myself, who asked that the president and others
> >elected officials not be made subject to disrespect on the List, were
> >themselves placed "on review".
> >
> >When Barbara cited the "rules" as to indications for placing members "on
> >review", she stated that my disagreement as to the unrestricted use of
> >embryonic stem cells for research might negatively affect "fragile
members of
> >this List", and somehow interfere with their "sense of community".  When
> >posts such as made by several other members of this List are accepted
(many
> >of them, like John Cottingham's, being personal attacks), it is
unacceptable to
> >me that my remarks, not directed to an individual, are worthy of
censorship.
> >
> >The Listowners have every right to construct and maintain their List in
any
> >way that they wish.  If they wish to have a "feelgood" structure, where
people
> >can mainly give emotional support to each other, then that is fine.  On
the
> >other hand, if this List is to be a source of scientific information
concerning
> >Parkinson's and related conditions (and attract participation by
professionals
> >in the field), it must be understood that some of the information
obtained may
> >not always be "warm and fuzzy", and that significant controversies exist
in
> >the field.  I had thought that the "I" in PIEN, stood for "information",
and that
> >this, along with support, was one of the main objectives of this List.
> >
> >In summary, it is my position that John Cottingham, by his remarks of
> >September regarding "removing organs from those on life support" (his
> >words), has slandered me; and though, in a subsequent note from Barbara,
> >John is alleged to have said that his remarks were "humorous", I did not
> >consider them humorous in any way.  His continued refusal to apologize
(and
> >since the posting was public, I have insisted that the apology likewise
be
> >public), along with Barbara's decision to "penalize the victim", tell me
that I
> >no longer belong on this List.
> >
> >To those with whom I have been associated here for a decade, I wish you
the
> >best of good fortune as you battle, either directly or indirectly, with
> >Parkinson's disease.
> >
> >
> >Sincerely,
> >
> >
> >Bob Fink
> >
> >
> >**********************************************
> >Robert A. Fink, M. D., F.A.C.S., P. C.
> >2500 Milvia Street  Suite 222
> >Berkeley, California  94704-2636
> >Telephone:  510-849-2555   FAX:  510-849-2557
> >WWW:  http://www.rafink.com/
> >
> >mailto:[log in to unmask]
> >
> >"Ex Tristitia Virtus"
> >
> >*********************************************
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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