Wendy:

Science is in search of change,  to change the way we think and act. Science
likes change.   Religion on the other hand is fixed and tries not to change.

Ned


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wendy Siegel" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 3:51 PM
Subject: Re: Moral certainty


> Ray:
> Are you CERTAIN about that? :) (Sorry, couldn't help myself!) Science
> once taught the earth was flat. Things that science has PROVEN are being
> dis-proven every day.
>
> Wendy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Parkinson's Information Exchange Network
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of rayilynlee
> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 12:12 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Moral certainty
>
> Moral  certainty is the cause  of  wars,  bigotry, intolerance and much
> suffering.  The person who is  certain  he  is right about as  yet
> unanswerable  questions is a tremendous obstacle to progress.
> Education
> teaches  you  how much  you don't  know and defines the  boundaries of
> your
> knowledge.
>
> My education tells me a cell is a cell and there is  good  reason  to
> call
> it a cell, not a  person.  I need  to hear some good reasons why  a cell
> is
> a  person to change my mind, not ooh  don't  name-call.
>
> Rayilyn Brown, MA  major History. minor Philosophy, UCLA
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ned Gardner" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 7:25 PM
> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo
>
>
>> Don:
>>
>> Moral certainty is always a sign of cultural inferiority. The more
>> uncivilized the man, the surer he is that he knows precisely what is
> right
>> and what is wrong. All human progress, even in morals, has been the
> work
>> of
>> men who have doubted the current moral values, not of men who have
> whooped
>> them up and tried to enforce them. The truly civilized man is always
>> skeptical and tolerant.
>> -- H. L. Mencken, Minority Report (1956)
>>
>>
>> Ned
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Don Mckinley" <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 2:32 PM
>> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -------Original Message-------
>>>
>>> From: Parkinson's Information Exchange Network
>>> Date: 03/15/05 02:07:15
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo
>>>
>>> Ned:
>>> What is "the wrong turn" is just a matter of opinion, not fact, but I
>>> can see this discussion is leading nowhere, and the problem of
> finding a
>>> way to come to consensus continues. :( If you would like to continue
>>> this discussion, I think we should take it off the list, but I think
> it
>>> is a waste of time.
>>>
>>> Wendy
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Parkinson's Information Exchange Network
>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ned Gardner
>>> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 7:28 AM
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo
>>>
>>> Wendy:
>>>
>>> What would that compromise be?  Either we do all that is necessary to
>>> end PD
>>> or we continue  being led down the path taking all the wrong turns
> being
>>> lead  by those who's primary symbol they march behind is one of
> capitol
>>> punishment.        ( the cross )
>>>
>>>  Ned
>>>
>>> wendy NED WE NEED TO WORK TO GETER WHO IS RIGHT I DON'T KNOW I BEEN
>>> FIGHTING PD FOR 35 YEARS I DO WHAT    IT TAKES TO BEAT IT I DON'T ASK
> GOD
>>> TO
>>> FIGHT IT FOR ME BUT BELIVE IN GOD GOD I DO NOT UNDER STAND WHAT IS
> THE
>>> TROUBEL I AASK NO HEL I DO FOR MY SELF BUT AM HEAR TO HELP ANY ONE.
> THERE
>>> IS
>>> NO ONE ON THE PD LIST I HAVE EVER BAD M MOUTH WE HAVE EMAIL TO FOR
> THAT
>>> LETS
>>> HELP EACH OTHER SO EMAIL NOT LIST TO COMPLAIN  WE ARE TO HELP ONE AND
>>> OTHER
>>> [log in to unmask] Original Message -----
>>> From: "Wendy Siegel" <[log in to unmask]>
>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 12:17 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi Ned!
>>>> I understand your point, but I don't know if I agree. I am very much
>>> an
>>>> independent thinker, and I find pros and cons to any side. Just
>>> because
>>>> I am not in the church at this time in my life doesn't mean that I
>>> won't
>>>> be in the future. It is just not something I feel I need at this
> time,
>>>> but who knows what tomorrow will bring? I know people whom I admire
>>> who
>>>> are in the church, and sometimes even independent thinkers need what
>>>> being part of a group can provide. There is strength in numbers, and
>>> if
>>>> we (PWP) could ever compromise and pursue a common goal, just think
>>> what
>>>> could be accomplished! :)
>>>>
>>>> Wendy
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Parkinson's Information Exchange Network
>>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ned Gardner
>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2005 7:56 AM
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo
>>>>
>>>> Wendy:
>>>>
>>>> Am I correct when say your independent thinking has led you to not
>>> join
>>>> a
>>>> church, and also have the ability of interpreting  the intent of my
>>>> thought
>>>> process?
>>>>
>>>> Ned
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Wendy Siegel" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 10:51 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Ned:
>>>>> Belonging to a church does not preclude someone from being an
>>>>> independent self informed thinker. One way to effectively
> communicate
>>>>> might be to stop calling names and assuming that you are better or
>>>>> smarter than they are. By the way, I don't belong to a church, but
> I
>>>> do
>>>>> believe in a higher power.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wendy
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Parkinson's Information Exchange Network
>>>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ned Gardner
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 9:02 AM
>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo
>>>>>
>>>>> Peggy:
>>>>> Please remember when  referring to the "church herd"
>>>>> it could  never include an independent self informed thinker such
> as
>>>>> your
>>>>> self.   What are your thoughts on how to effectively
>>>>> communicate with the church herd.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ned
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Peggy Willocks" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 9:39 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ned
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please remember when referring to the anti-abortionists as the
>>>> "church
>>>>>> herd," that not all of the herd is created equal.  I am part of
> the
>>>>> church
>>>>>> herd, but DO NOT agree with the present stand on stem cell usage.
>>>> And
>>>>>> regardless of what anybody says, one CAN be pro-life and an
> advocate
>>>>> of
>>>>>> stem
>>>>>> cells simultaneously.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (See an article done a while back -
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
> http://www.parkinsons-information-exchange-network-online.com/parkmail1/
>>>>> 2003c/msg00091.html )
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Peggy
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: Ned Gardner
>>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 11:03 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rayilynlee:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The church herd would rather see aborted material go straight to
> the
>>>>>> incinerator rather than used for any stem cell research.  You see
>>>> this
>>>>>> deprives the woman of any
>>>>>>
>>>>>> possibility of feeling that something good can come from
>>>>>>
>>>>>> her choice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ned
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "rayilynlee" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 10:54 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dee
>>>>>>> These same people are also doing other evil things besides
> opposing
>>>>> ESCR
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> NT.  I tell you we are entering a terrible period of history.
>>>>>>> Ray
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Dolores Buente" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 7:53 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dear Jennifer,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I share in your frustration.  It seems that we are living
> through
>>>> an
>>>>>>>> important chapter in medical and moral history.  Later, when
> this
>>>>> period
>>>>>>>> is recorded,
>>>>>>>> it will likely be compared to past practices and beliefs such as
>>>> the
>>>>>>>> Salem
>>>>>>>> witch hunts and the persecution of people who were labeled
>>> heretics
>>>>>>>> because they
>>>>>>>> declared that the world is round.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> History shows us that it often takes much effort and bravery to
>>>>> advance
>>>>>>>> society forward. Look back at the struggle of individuals who
>>>> fought
>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> the right
>>>>>>>> of family planning.  They faced the wrath of those people and
>>>>>>>> institutions
>>>>>>>> who declared it sinful to practice birth control.  The same
> people
>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> institutions who today declare it sinful to use cells in a
> petrii
>>>>> dish
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> alleviate
>>>>>>>> pain and suffering.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dee
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to:
>>>>>>>> mailto:[log in to unmask]
>>>>>>>> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to:
>>>>>>> mailto:[log in to unmask]
>>>>>>> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to:
>>>>>> mailto:[log in to unmask]
>>>>>> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to:
>>>>>> mailto:[log in to unmask]
>>>>>> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to:
>>>>> mailto:[log in to unmask]
>>>>> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to:
>>>>> mailto:[log in to unmask]
>>>>> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn
>>>>
>>>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to:
>>>> mailto:[log in to unmask]
>>>> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn
>>>>
>>>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to:
>>>> mailto:[log in to unmask]
>>>> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn
>>>
>>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to:
>>> mailto:[log in to unmask]
>>> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn
>>>
>>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to:
>>> mailto:[log in to unmask]
>>> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn
>>>
>>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to:
>>> mailto:[log in to unmask]
>>> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn
>>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to:
>> mailto:[log in to unmask]
>> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to:
> mailto:[log in to unmask]
> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to:
> mailto:[log in to unmask]
> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn

----------------------------------------------------------------------
To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask]
In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn