Ned:
    Science is after the ultimate truth, not necessaily change.
    Raj
**************
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ned Gardner" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: Moral certainty


> Wendy:
>
> Science is in search of change,  to change the way we think and act.
Science
> likes change.   Religion on the other hand is fixed and tries not to
change.
>
> Ned
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Wendy Siegel" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 3:51 PM
> Subject: Re: Moral certainty
>
>
> > Ray:
> > Are you CERTAIN about that? :) (Sorry, couldn't help myself!) Science
> > once taught the earth was flat. Things that science has PROVEN are being
> > dis-proven every day.
> >
> > Wendy
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Parkinson's Information Exchange Network
> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of rayilynlee
> > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 12:12 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: Moral certainty
> >
> > Moral  certainty is the cause  of  wars,  bigotry, intolerance and much
> > suffering.  The person who is  certain  he  is right about as  yet
> > unanswerable  questions is a tremendous obstacle to progress.
> > Education
> > teaches  you  how much  you don't  know and defines the  boundaries of
> > your
> > knowledge.
> >
> > My education tells me a cell is a cell and there is  good  reason  to
> > call
> > it a cell, not a  person.  I need  to hear some good reasons why  a cell
> > is
> > a  person to change my mind, not ooh  don't  name-call.
> >
> > Rayilyn Brown, MA  major History. minor Philosophy, UCLA
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ned Gardner" <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 7:25 PM
> > Subject: Re: Souls in limbo
> >
> >
> >> Don:
> >>
> >> Moral certainty is always a sign of cultural inferiority. The more
> >> uncivilized the man, the surer he is that he knows precisely what is
> > right
> >> and what is wrong. All human progress, even in morals, has been the
> > work
> >> of
> >> men who have doubted the current moral values, not of men who have
> > whooped
> >> them up and tried to enforce them. The truly civilized man is always
> >> skeptical and tolerant.
> >> -- H. L. Mencken, Minority Report (1956)
> >>
> >>
> >> Ned
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Don Mckinley" <[log in to unmask]>
> >> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 2:32 PM
> >> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -------Original Message-------
> >>>
> >>> From: Parkinson's Information Exchange Network
> >>> Date: 03/15/05 02:07:15
> >>> To: [log in to unmask]
> >>> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo
> >>>
> >>> Ned:
> >>> What is "the wrong turn" is just a matter of opinion, not fact, but I
> >>> can see this discussion is leading nowhere, and the problem of
> > finding a
> >>> way to come to consensus continues. :( If you would like to continue
> >>> this discussion, I think we should take it off the list, but I think
> > it
> >>> is a waste of time.
> >>>
> >>> Wendy
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Parkinson's Information Exchange Network
> >>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ned Gardner
> >>> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 7:28 AM
> >>> To: [log in to unmask]
> >>> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo
> >>>
> >>> Wendy:
> >>>
> >>> What would that compromise be?  Either we do all that is necessary to
> >>> end PD
> >>> or we continue  being led down the path taking all the wrong turns
> > being
> >>> lead  by those who's primary symbol they march behind is one of
> > capitol
> >>> punishment.        ( the cross )
> >>>
> >>>  Ned
> >>>
> >>> wendy NED WE NEED TO WORK TO GETER WHO IS RIGHT I DON'T KNOW I BEEN
> >>> FIGHTING PD FOR 35 YEARS I DO WHAT    IT TAKES TO BEAT IT I DON'T ASK
> > GOD
> >>> TO
> >>> FIGHT IT FOR ME BUT BELIVE IN GOD GOD I DO NOT UNDER STAND WHAT IS
> > THE
> >>> TROUBEL I AASK NO HEL I DO FOR MY SELF BUT AM HEAR TO HELP ANY ONE.
> > THERE
> >>> IS
> >>> NO ONE ON THE PD LIST I HAVE EVER BAD M MOUTH WE HAVE EMAIL TO FOR
> > THAT
> >>> LETS
> >>> HELP EACH OTHER SO EMAIL NOT LIST TO COMPLAIN  WE ARE TO HELP ONE AND
> >>> OTHER
> >>> [log in to unmask] Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Wendy Siegel" <[log in to unmask]>
> >>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> >>> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 12:17 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Hi Ned!
> >>>> I understand your point, but I don't know if I agree. I am very much
> >>> an
> >>>> independent thinker, and I find pros and cons to any side. Just
> >>> because
> >>>> I am not in the church at this time in my life doesn't mean that I
> >>> won't
> >>>> be in the future. It is just not something I feel I need at this
> > time,
> >>>> but who knows what tomorrow will bring? I know people whom I admire
> >>> who
> >>>> are in the church, and sometimes even independent thinkers need what
> >>>> being part of a group can provide. There is strength in numbers, and
> >>> if
> >>>> we (PWP) could ever compromise and pursue a common goal, just think
> >>> what
> >>>> could be accomplished! :)
> >>>>
> >>>> Wendy
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: Parkinson's Information Exchange Network
> >>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ned Gardner
> >>>> Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2005 7:56 AM
> >>>> To: [log in to unmask]
> >>>> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo
> >>>>
> >>>> Wendy:
> >>>>
> >>>> Am I correct when say your independent thinking has led you to not
> >>> join
> >>>> a
> >>>> church, and also have the ability of interpreting  the intent of my
> >>>> thought
> >>>> process?
> >>>>
> >>>> Ned
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "Wendy Siegel" <[log in to unmask]>
> >>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> >>>> Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 10:51 AM
> >>>> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Ned:
> >>>>> Belonging to a church does not preclude someone from being an
> >>>>> independent self informed thinker. One way to effectively
> > communicate
> >>>>> might be to stop calling names and assuming that you are better or
> >>>>> smarter than they are. By the way, I don't belong to a church, but
> > I
> >>>> do
> >>>>> believe in a higher power.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Wendy
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: Parkinson's Information Exchange Network
> >>>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ned Gardner
> >>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 9:02 AM
> >>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
> >>>>> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Peggy:
> >>>>> Please remember when  referring to the "church herd"
> >>>>> it could  never include an independent self informed thinker such
> > as
> >>>>> your
> >>>>> self.   What are your thoughts on how to effectively
> >>>>> communicate with the church herd.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ned
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> From: "Peggy Willocks" <[log in to unmask]>
> >>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 9:39 AM
> >>>>> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Ned
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Please remember when referring to the anti-abortionists as the
> >>>> "church
> >>>>>> herd," that not all of the herd is created equal.  I am part of
> > the
> >>>>> church
> >>>>>> herd, but DO NOT agree with the present stand on stem cell usage.
> >>>> And
> >>>>>> regardless of what anybody says, one CAN be pro-life and an
> > advocate
> >>>>> of
> >>>>>> stem
> >>>>>> cells simultaneously.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> (See an article done a while back -
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> > http://www.parkinsons-information-exchange-network-online.com/parkmail1/

> >>>>> 2003c/msg00091.html )
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Peggy
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>> From: Ned Gardner
> >>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
> >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 11:03 AM
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Rayilynlee:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The church herd would rather see aborted material go straight to
> > the
> >>>>>> incinerator rather than used for any stem cell research.  You see
> >>>> this
> >>>>>> deprives the woman of any
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> possibility of feeling that something good can come from
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> her choice.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Ned
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>> From: "rayilynlee" <[log in to unmask]>
> >>>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 10:54 PM
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Dee
> >>>>>>> These same people are also doing other evil things besides
> > opposing
> >>>>> ESCR
> >>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>> NT.  I tell you we are entering a terrible period of history.
> >>>>>>> Ray
> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>> From: "Dolores Buente" <[log in to unmask]>
> >>>>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 7:53 AM
> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Dear Jennifer,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I share in your frustration.  It seems that we are living
> > through
> >>>> an
> >>>>>>>> important chapter in medical and moral history.  Later, when
> > this
> >>>>> period
> >>>>>>>> is recorded,
> >>>>>>>> it will likely be compared to past practices and beliefs such as
> >>>> the
> >>>>>>>> Salem
> >>>>>>>> witch hunts and the persecution of people who were labeled
> >>> heretics
> >>>>>>>> because they
> >>>>>>>> declared that the world is round.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> History shows us that it often takes much effort and bravery to
> >>>>> advance
> >>>>>>>> society forward. Look back at the struggle of individuals who
> >>>> fought
> >>>>> for
> >>>>>>>> the right
> >>>>>>>> of family planning.  They faced the wrath of those people and
> >>>>>>>> institutions
> >>>>>>>> who declared it sinful to practice birth control.  The same
> > people
> >>>>> and
> >>>>>>>> institutions who today declare it sinful to use cells in a
> > petrii
> >>>>> dish
> >>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>> alleviate
> >>>>>>>> pain and suffering.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Dee
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
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