Agreed, Ray
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick McGirr" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 5:10 AM
Subject: Re: Stem cells as people


>I heard a discussion on the radio yesterday, in which a questioner
> brought out the well used line, that the excess embryos are going to
> be destroyed anyway, so why not allow them to be used in research, and
> the panelist responded that the same logic would allow experimentation
> on death row inmates or terminally ill people.
>
> This is a valid point, and I actually am going to stop using the
> 'garbage' argument.  But the plain, scientifically and legally
> supported fact remains:  these cells which were willfully created in a
> lab are not people, nor were they created by god to be blessings to
> their "parents".  Further, the cells could only possibly become people
> after being inseminated and brought to term.  No one dies when one of
> these embryos is used for its stem cells.  No, it's us who are being
> destroyed slowly by our afflictions.  And I will continue to ask the
> 'snowflake' crowd, if you want to save lives, how about mine,
> Rayilynn's, Mackenzie's, and millions of the rest of us?
>
> Anyway, how dare the naked emperor pose for photos with a bunch of
> kids made by artificial insemination, use them as a bogus reason to
> restrict ESCR, and then turn around and blow up some more Iraqis and
> Americans?  He is the ultimate hypocrite.
>
> Enjoy Summer!
> Rick McGirr
> Email: [log in to unmask]
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "rayilynlee" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 2:03 PM
> Subject: Re: Stem cells as people
>
>
>> Mackenzie,
>> Opponents of embryonic stem cell research claim a "person" is being
> murdered
>> or killed when blastocysts are used for research.  Theoretically and
>> actually they could become a person if they survive thawing, succeed
> in
>> implantation in a womb, survive gestation and are born alive.  This
> is the
>> "moral" argument against using blastocysts for research.  They don't
> seem to
>> oppose the IVF clinics that produce and routinely discard them in
> the IVF
>> process.
>>
>> Nuclear transfer, an unfertilized egg and one's own DNA, COULD
> possibly lead
>> to your own delayed twin being born, like
>> Snuppy the dog, although all legislation that I've heard of bans
> that.  I
>> personally am not offended by human cloning, but there is a great
> fear of it
>> among opponents of ESCR, they re afraid it will lead to that.
>>
>> In the Congress they are kicking around ideas re legislation that
> would
>> allow for taking a cell to create stem cell lines  from an embryo
> w/out
>> destroying the embryo, something like they do in gene checking for
> defects
>> in the IVF process.  No animal research has been done on this.
>>
>> I still don't know what they will do with the extra embryos, unless
> they can
>> get them all "adopted" which is a pretty daunting task.
>>
>> I don't think 100 microscopic undifferentiated cells are a person,
> but
>> bestowing personhood and a SSN on these cells would make it easier
> to
>> overturn Roe v. Wade.  It has been made into an
>> abortion issue, which I think is wrong.
>> Ray
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "mackenzie" <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 11:23 PM
>> Subject: Re: Hurlbut, Bioethics and Hypocrisy
>>
>>
>> > thank you, rayilynlee - but i have never understood
>> > the whole stem cells as people thing... i imagine
>> > there is some reasoning that escapes me - would you
>> > explain it to me?
>> >
>> > thank you!
>> > mackenzie
>> >
>> > --- rayilynlee <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Very interesting article Mackenzie, read a blog last
>> >> night that had a very
>> >> short letter - If stem cells are people, why aren't
>> >> they counted in the
>> >> census?  Ray
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "mackenzie" <[log in to unmask]>
>> >> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> >> Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 10:57 PM
>> >> Subject: Hurlbut, Bioethics and Hypocrisy
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > article on Blogger News Network about the
>> >> > "alternative" methods for obtaining ESCs, and the
>> >> > hypocrisy they reveal, among other things:
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
> http://www.bloggernews.net/showstory.asp?page=blognews/stories/HM0000059.txt
>> >> >
>> >> > mackenzie
>> >> >
>> >> > __________________________________________________
>> >> > Do You Yahoo!?
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>> >> > http://mail.yahoo.com
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>>
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