Try   this argument on for size :
doesn't "microscopic undifferentiated cells" cover menstrual products ?
If serious, these guys would have to make menstruation illegal (an egg gets shed) and declare every bin in every female toilet/restroom a crime sceen...
 
If they don't support that then they're not taking their own argument seriously & if they do they're
ridiculous.
 

> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 10:58:18 -0700
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: ESCR "EMBRYOS"
> To: [log in to unmask]
> 
> The embryos used for ESCR are not created for the purpose of medical 
> experimentation. The whole process of IVF results in more than needed so 
> owners must either freeze them forever, trash them, or donate them to 
> science. Many anti-abortionists also oppose IVF and contraceptives, as well 
> as ESCR and even SCNT which involves as unfertilized egg and a somatic cell 
> like a skin cell. I imagine they also oppose iPSCR as ESCs are necessary 
> for the research. They are also behind 14th amendment personhood rights 
> for zygotes which if legal would ban contraceptives, IVF, ESCR, as well as 
> abortion. A human cell is not a human person any more than a corporation 
> is a person or an acorn is an oak tree.
> 
> I do know that Prentice falsely promoted Dennis Turner and several others 
> as ASC Parkinson "cures" on his ASC cure list of varying numbers for 
> several years. Also, Susan Fajit, a paraplegic. I talked to Dennis twice 
> on the phone when I could still talk.
> 
> I do not fear clones, science, or the government. Without Medicare I could 
> not have afforded my 2 DBSs. I do not believe that "just let them die" as 
> was recently applauded by a Republican debate audience is a good solution. 
> With a few exceptions, scientists have done a pretty good job of 
> contributing to the public good.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: David McMurray
> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 2:14 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Lets talk about ESC Mania!
> 
> Hi Rick;
> 
> You make a good point, one that I have embraced for at least half a century,
> but to debate on which side has more idiots would not be appropriate here,
> and I am commenting on the subject of ESCR at the invitation of Ray.
> 
> She has already discounted my response, i.e., Dr. Prentice and his testimony
> before the Maryland House Committees, but I'd like to get specific and ask a
> few questions, based on his testimony. Keep in mind that I don't claim to
> be an expert nor do I have any education or training in this science. And
> Ray, you obviously know more about him than I do. But these questions will
> be taken from his testimony before Congress.
> 
> 1. Does the science behind "somatic cell nuclear transfer" promote the use
> of cloning technology to create human embryos for experiments?
> 2. Is it true that almost all higher animals start their lives from a
> single cell: the fertilized ovum. (zygote)?
> 3. Do you agree that the National Academy of Sciences' definition of
> "embryo" includes, "In medical terms, embryo usually refers to the
> developing human from fertilization (the zygote stage)?....
> 4. Is it true, as stated by Dr. Prentice, that "Both Reproductive and
> Therapeutic cloning use exactly the same techniques to create the clone, and
> the cloned embryos are indistinguishable?
> 5. Is it true that "therapeutic cloning requires the creation of and
> disaggregation ex utero of blastocyst stage embryos"?
> 6. Is it true that "Unlike much stem cell research, which can use spare
> embryos remaining from infertility procedures, CRNT (cell replacement
> through nuclear transfer AKA "therapeutic cloning") requires the deliberate
> creation and disaggregation of a human embryo. (and this is,
> evidently, where the Ethics question begins).
> 
> So, the way I see it, and the reason abortion has been thrown into the mix,
> Ray; those who have no problem with aborting "fetuses" will have no problem
> with ESCR.
> 
> And Rick, I'd be careful of promoting an issue that has to rely on what is
> done "for the greater public". History cries out to us to learn from the
> past, and not repeat the events that have been done under that guise. The
> problem was in who determined what was good.
> 
> In that regard, if Obama Care is fully implemented, seniors may very well be
> individually scrutinized as to their viability. Those decisions will also
> be made considering "the public good". If you don't believe it, there's
> plenty on the web on both sides of the issue. But for me, Obama Care is
> going to adversely impact all seniors, particularly those in need of major
> medical care. (Such as ESC treatments)?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Rick McGirr
> Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 12:33 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Lets talk about ESC Mania!
> 
> Hello, folks,
> 
> Ray, thanks for the invitation.
> 
> "....come on, his constituents don't take him seriously, why should you?"
> 
> My answer: because idiots vote.
> 
> Misinformation is one of the chief tools in any political contest. If enough
> people are ill-informed, they will cause wrong-headed bills to bubble up to
> the top of public discourse, like this poor, misguided buffoon in Oklahoma
> has done. It's curious that this legislator has, himself, bubbled to the top
> of Okla politics.
> 
> It's unfortunate that medical research has to sit on its hands while these
> 'chicken-licken's' slowly grasp what is actually happening. I think the best
> prophylactic for misguided ideas is a good dousing with correct information
> and up-to-date discussion focusing on reality, the scientific method, and
> the good of the greater public, tenets of public discourse back when I was
> attending public schools.
> 
> Rick
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Parkinson's Information Exchange Network
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Rayilyn Brown
> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 3:37 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Lets talk about ESC Mania!
> 
> Dave
> 
> thank you for bringing this up. I assume you are someone who has concerns
> 
> about the ESC issue and I would like to know what they are. I think it is
> past time we had an open discussion re this issue., especially since it
> looks like ESCS are responsible for restoring sight to two women. And now,
> more than ever, the forces of opposition on the state level are mixing
> abortion with IVF, contraception and embryonic stem cell research.
> 
> Millions of lives depend upon the outcome of this struggle and I don't mean
> aborted fetuses.
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: David McMurray
> Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 12:20 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: ESC Mania!
> 
> Using this nut to throw a blanket over anyone who has concerns about the
> stem cell issue is disingenuous, to say the least....come on, his
> constituents don't take him seriously, why should you?
> 
> Dave
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Meg Duggan
> Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 9:07 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: ESC Mania!
> 
> OMG OMG OMG. These people make me want to tear my hair out and set myself
> on fire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nic Marais <[log in to unmask]>
> To: PARKINSN <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Fri, Jan 27, 2012 3:27 am
> Subject: ESC Mania!
> 
> 
> Ray, this is what you're up against!!!
> http://www.lifeslittlemysteries.com/2105-aborted-fetuses-food-oklahoma.html
> And I thought we had problems with politicians here in SA...
> Nic 59/17
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