Guys,
This is NOT the place for political dialogue. PD is depressing enough.
Take your politics elsewhere.
Tony

On 4/16/2012 2:29 PM, David McMurray wrote:
> Hi Rick; the difference between the way I see it, as opposed to many
> on this site; it's obvious that I am convinced the government IS the
> problem, not the solution. The thousands of alphabet soup agencies
> that had such glowing promise of solving a particular social or
> economic injustice has been a miserable failure, with the only
> answer from the Feds: create more bureaucracy and increase spending.
> Jimmy Carter in 1976, I believe, created the Dept. of Energy to end
> our reliance on foreign oil, by "developing and producing domestic
> supplies". OSHA was created to increase safety in the workplace, but
> has had little or no impact. (But has caused tremendous cost
> increases). The NLRB was originally formed as an un-biased Federal
> Agency to settle disputes between Management and Labor. Now, it is a
> crusader for Organized Labor.... This Behemoth (Big Government) has a
> voracious and insatiable appetite that has the US, as well as most of
> the industrial nations drowning in red ink. We are broke, period.
>
> With our huge deficits growing exponentially, Obama trots out his
> answer to Health Insurance, claiming it will lower medical costs. Of
> coarse, the numbers used have been proven to be as worthless as the
> paper it's written on, with the GAO and bi-partisan congressional
> review stating the actual cost is triple the projections....
>
> One of the lead proponents of Obama-Care is in love with Great
> Britain's plan. I've read some interesting comments and some
> history..correct me if this is not accurate; some claim that the
> glowing promise of the newly formed NHS in July of 1948 becoming the
> bench mark for Socialized Medicine has failed miserably, considered
> by many as the worst of all the industrialized nations. Costs have
> exploded. The NHS uses the most aggressive pricing in the West,
> going so far as to assign a price to the "Quality-Adjusted Life
> Year", that is required to extend it. But from 1996-2008 national
> health costs in the UK have gone up 6.7%, compared with 5.7% in the
> U.S. If you don't qualify under the "Quality-adjusted Life Year
> criterion, and chose to have the treatment and pay for it yourself,
> you are kicked off the NHS for life.
>
> Terminally ill patients are classified as "close to death" to allow
> removal of expensive life support. Hip and knee replacement
> schedules are supposed to be 5 months, but are actually a 11 month
> wait. If you buy a drug that NHS won't cover, you're expelled for
> ever. In 1999, realizing they couldn't absorb the skyrocketing
> costs, they formed rationing boards whose sole purpose was to
> identify and limit coverage to those procedures that were deemed
> "cost effective". The "QALY" was formed precisely to deny elderly
> care patients and shift coverage to younger, healthier patients.
> This probably explains the statistics that show the UK with the
> highest mortality rates for elderly patients diagnosed with cancer
> or chronic illnesses.
>
> There's much, much more that should cause us to pause, ponder, and
> heed the warning signs....they are there.
>
> Dave
>
> P.S.: Rick, I didn't refer to them as "death panels", and didn't
> compare Obama to Stalin. :)
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Rick McGirr Sent: Sunday, April 15,
> 2012 11:05 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: WHAT W I
> LL YOU DO IN NOVEMBER? David,
>
> If America is so wealthy, why are so many people living without any
> healthcare at all?
>
> We have seen the profit motive at work in healthcare before, in the
> case of the pharmaceutical company which pulled the plug on a trial
> of GDNF. The chief exec of the company was caught saying, at a
> shareholder meeting, that treatments such as GDNF were not the way
> the company should go, because of its poor profit prospects. Left
> alone to cope in our free-market system, these poor subjects are
> stuck with the hardware for the delivery of GDNF still implanted in
> their bodies. This is not a hypothetical case. It actually happened.
>
> Echoing Ray’s remarks, what if a cure for Parkinson’s was developed,
> but the projections for the profitability were low enough to steer
> the most companies away from the cure’s development and mass
> production? Is there no point at all when a caring society should
> stand up for all the ones who would be left in the lurch? Are we to
> sit idly by and let the bulls trample our chance of regaining what we
> have lost during our tenure as inmates in the PD prison?
>
> David, I just don’t know how you could fall for the “death committee”
> lies and the comparisons of Mr. Obama’s presidency to Stalinist
> Russia in the mid-20th century. I say if there is enough money in
> our society to fight two or three simultaneous wars and bully the
> rest of the world with our military in the vanguard, bail out the
> banks and Chevrolet, and give the proposed tax cuts to the wealthiest
> beneficiaries of the free-market, there certainly should be a little
> pile of coins that we could sweep up after the capitalist binge,
> enough to provide for development of unprofitable but effective
> treatments, along with coverage for those who can’t afford it.
>
> Being deemed “unfit for further treatment” is much more likely in the
> system that existed before the Affordable Healthcare Act. I’m sure
> there are many on this listserve who can testify to having been
> denied prescription coverage, or paying hundreds of dollars for a
> single bottle of pills. And I’m sure that all of us have heard horror
> stories about people being denied care in emergency rooms, and later
> dying because they didn’t have insurance coverage. In fact,
> committees who do indeed decide people’s fate on a cost-benefit basis
> exist right now, today, only they are not created and run by
> President Obama and his sinister squad of eugenic scientists. They
> are just part of the daily practice of running a health insurance
> company.
>
> It's becoming increasingly harder to watch these discussions without
> participating. Hope you don't mind.
>
> Rick McGirr
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Parkinson's Information Exchange
> Network [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Rayilyn
> Brown Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2012 2:53 AM To:
> [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: WHAT W I LL YOU DO IN
> NOVEMBER?
>
> Hi David,
>
> and thanks for responding. I guess you fear Obama has death panels
> in store for us, right? So what do you suggest for health care?
>
> At one time in history feudalism was a "better" system.
> Capitalism and industralization definitely led to human progress;
> non-industial societies don't do very well. But is this the end of
> the line? The best we can do? I specifically asked why profit had
> to be a part of health care and you did not address that question.
>
> The defects of the "free market" system put us in this mess, not Mr.
> Obama. The repeal of the Glass-Seagall Act's ban on investment and
> commercial banking in one institution led to the financial breakdown.
> It had kept us safe since the 1930's
>
> I for one am tired of hearing about the superiority of the United
> States. For your information DBS was first done by a French doctor.
> ProSavin is only being done in the UK and France.
>
> I also think the big government vs. small government issue is a phony
> one. What matters is who is in the government not how big or small
> it is. For the past few decades Republicans have gotten control of
> many state governments. Witness the retrogressive, extremist
> legislation they are producing or attempting to produce, personhood
> laws, bans on collective bargaining, invasive vaginal exams, voter
> suppression, anti-abortion, stand your ground, etc. Talk about Big
> Brother!!!!
>
> These issues do affect people with Parkinson's and all diseases for
> that matter. We ignore them at our peril.
>
> -----Original Message----- From: David McMurray Sent: Saturday, April
> 14, 2012 12:26 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: WHAT
> W I LL YOU DO IN NOVEMBER?
>
> Ray, your comments and questions warrant a response.....in general,
> profit has made this country the most prosperous, with the highest
> standard of living, in the history of mankind. Instead of a system,
> like the Soviet Union and others that shared and share equally in
> scarcity, (which increases human suffering and a poverty standard of
> living), our Free Market economy has done just the opposite. And if
> we can reverse the direction that Mr. Obama has pointed us in, we
> will continue to see opportunities for those who want to work hard
> and improve their lot in life.
>
> I am much more concerned about Big Brother telling us what we can or
> cannot be treated for. I've seen the quotes, and the Panels of
> Experts that will eventually be formed under ObamaCare will have the
> power to deem an individual unfit for further treatment, or a
> specific treatment, (based on economic concerns, i.e., what's the
> cost/benefit factor.) Obama has mentioned the fact that the rising
> cost of Care is directly related to the increased numbers of the
> Senior population and the expensive treatment for serious illnesses
> common to them. Denying treatment is going to be a major
> cost-cutting feature of OBC.....this concept used to be"
> Unthinkable", but has become "Thinkable", soon to be
> "Acceptable".....all done for the "common good".
>
> November, for me is a "no-brainer"....:):)
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Rayilyn Brown Sent: Friday, April
> 13, 2012 1:57 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: WHAT W I
> LL YOU DO IN NOVEMBER?
>
> I just heard Romney’s address to the NRA. he said Obama is
> destroying our economic, religious and personal freedom (to choose
> our own health care), and the constitution . The Declaration of
> Independence god-given rights was also cited.
>
> What kind of a life does one have with Parkinson’s?
>
> Is a cure going to come from the free market which sees no profit in
> a cure, the churches, or the NRA?
>
> Can someone tell me why profit has to be the foundation of our health
> care?
>
> WHAT A TERRIBLE SHAME IT WOULD BE IF PROSAVIN TURNED OUT TO BE A CURE
> FOR PD, BUT WAS NOT PROFITABLE ENOUGH FOR THE “JOB CREATORS”!!
>
> Please, I beg you, don’t return us to the past.
>
> Ray Rayilyn Brown Past Director AZNPF Arizona Chapter National
> Parkinson Foundation
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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>
 in life.<br>
      &gt; <br>
      &gt; I am much more concerned about Big Brother telling us what we
      can or<br>
      &gt; cannot be treated for. I've seen the quotes, and the Panels
      of<br>
      &gt; Experts that will eventually be formed under ObamaCare will
      have the<br>
      &gt; power to deem an individual unfit for further treatment, or a<br>
      &gt; specific treatment, (based on economic concerns, i.e., what's
      the<br>
      &gt; cost/benefit factor.) Obama has mentioned the fact that the
      rising<br>
      &gt; cost of Care is directly related to the increased numbers of
      the<br>
      &gt; Senior population and the expensive treatment for serious
      illnesses<br>
      &gt; common to them. Denying treatment is going to be a major<br>
      &gt; cost-cutting feature of OBC.....this concept used to be"<br>
      &gt; Unthinkable", but has become "Thinkable", soon to be<br>
      &gt; "Acceptable".....all done for the "common good".<br>
      &gt; <br>
      &gt; November, for me is a "no-brainer"....:):)<br>
      &gt; <br>
      &gt; Dave<br>
      &gt; <br>
      &gt; <br>
      &gt; <br>
      &gt; -----Original Message----- From: Rayilyn Brown Sent: Friday,
      April<br>
      &gt; 13, 2012 1:57 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject:
      WHAT W I<br>
      &gt; LL YOU DO IN NOVEMBER?<br>
      &gt; <br>
      &gt; I just heard Romney’s address to the NRA. he said Obama is<br>
      &gt; destroying our economic, religious and personal freedom (to
      choose<br>
      &gt; our own health care), and the constitution . The Declaration
      of<br>
      &gt; Independence god-given rights was also cited.<br>
      &gt; <br>
      &gt; What kind of a life does one have with Parkinson’s?<br>
      &gt; <br>
      &gt; Is a cure going to come from the free market which sees no
      profit in<br>
      &gt; a cure, the churches, or the NRA?<br>
      &gt; <br>
      &gt; Can someone tell me why profit has to be the foundation of
      our health<br>
      &gt; care?<br>
      &gt; <br>
      &gt; WHAT A TERRIBLE SHAME IT WOULD BE IF PROSAVIN TURNED OUT TO
      BE A CURE<br>
      &gt; FOR PD, BUT WAS NOT PROFITABLE ENOUGH FOR THE “JOB
      CREATORS”!!<br>
      &gt; <br>
      &gt; Please, I beg you, don’t return us to the past.<br>
      &gt; <br>
      &gt; Ray Rayilyn Brown Past Director AZNPF Arizona Chapter
      National<br>
      &gt; Parkinson Foundation<br>
      &gt; <br>
      &gt;
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
      &gt;<br>
      &gt; </span><br>
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