> From:          Ida & Andre Kamphuis <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject:       Re: dyskinesia


> But at te other side I have the symptoms yet. I do have the  impression
> that taking asperine helps.

Asperine ? What is it ? Where can I get it?
>
> I never heard this from someone else. But it helps only, if taken in a
> rather high dose, so that may
>
> only incidentally be helpfull.. I have always  had teimpression that
> theses symptoms have a resemblance to "wearing off" symptoms of diverse
> dependency creating drugs. If that is  true and the same neurological
> mechanisms  are responsible for it, that might give a clue for trying a
> medecine.

I agree entirely with this view . Levodopa  creates a change in the
brain chemistry that leads to increased dyskinesia . Below a quote from J
.Bruman CRS MAY 98

Pearce R et al; Mov Disord 1998;13:234-241:
Either bromocriptine or ropinirole alone in MPTP monkeys improves
motor symptoms with less dyskinesia than the equivalent dosage of
levodopa. However, if use of either agonist follows treatment with
levodopa, it elicits dyskinesia comparable with that of levodopa. So
they conclude that PD treatment should  begin with an agonist.

Another good source of the effect of Levodopa is DR. Sach's book "The
Awakenings" . I especialy like the reference by one patient to L-Dopa
as Helldopa .
>
> I have also the impression from differnt mailings I got on this subject
> that a "short" drugholliday for between a 1\2  to one day can do wonders
> but only " temporary " and only after starting the meds again.To have
> such a drugholliday is now more bearable than before my pallidotomy,
> because I do have less heavy Park. symptoms too, due to my pallidotomy.

Yes I occasionally take a drug holiday . One of the tests I want to
perform with GHB is a trial if it is effective  in helping relieve
the symtoms in a drug holiday .
> On my last visit abour six weeks ago with my neuro he said a new meds was
> coming, which he thought was very  probable to help aganst wearing off
> dysk. But it would not be sooner available then about 1 -11\2 year . The
> name, which may differ  from the future commercial name is Idazoxan and
> it is an adrenaline antagonist. A neuro on the French speaking list
>
> told that it was used in France already and the results seemed  to be
> positive. The litterature  of this symptom is scarse and the cause is not
> known, it is supposed to be related to neuromodulation..That means that
> some chemical has a long lasting effect on the  functioning of a
> subsystem. I appreciate to be informed about the results of your
> experiments. Can you tell why you expected this meds could be
helpfull

Here are some quotes of the explantion of the effects of GHB

"GHB (Alcover). Gammahydroxybutrate, or Sodium Oxybate is a remarkable
and diverse chemical, found naturally in every cell of the human body.
At high doses, GHB blocks the path of the neurotransmitter Dopamine,
but as the effects of GHB wear off there is a Dopamine rush. This rush
has been described as an aphrodisiac as GHB creates a mild euphoric
effect, (akin to alcohol intake). Also GHB is perhaps the most potent
agonist of growth hormone. The use of GHB has been clinically shown to
increase hGH levels by sixteen times baseline measurement within an
hour. Too much GHB can place the user into a deep sleep, from which
they can not be woken. Used correctly GHB can help libido, muscle
mass, alcohol withdrawal and sleep. Only take GHB at night before bed,
avoid any alcohol, also avoid use if you suffer from epilepsy,
cardiovascular problems, severe hypertension or Cushings disease.
Dosages are as follows; Alcohol withdrawal 150mg three times daily;
Libido enhancement 500mg to 1000mg before sex; Sleep 750mg to 1500mg;
Hormone Release 1000mg to 2500mg before bed. Doses are dependent upon
sex [less for women) and bodyweight (less Kg less mg), build up doses
slowly over days to find your requirement."
 The above is from an advert trying to sell GHB . I thought I had
more on file but I dont . More can be found at
http://www.paranoia.com/.../nootropics.html
GHB has been used medically to combat the following symptoms
 1) depression ( a PD symptom )
 2)muscle spasm in child birth ( PD muscle spasm ? )
 3 ) Alcoholic detoxification  ( by this I understand that GHB stops
the shackes when trying to come off alcohol . PD tremor ? )
4) narcolepsy ( an inability to stay awake during the day ) GHB is
supposed to help by giving a more intense and satisfying sleep .

GHB is sold as a sex stimulant I believe the increase in libido can
be attributable to a good nights sleep . Certainly the immediate
effect of taking it is one of relaxation not sexual stimulation . I
woke up the following morning feeling good with none of the usual
stiffness . This in my view increases the libido .

GHB has fallen into disrepute lately because of its use as a date
rape drug . Mix it with alcohol and you can go into a coma
(recoverable I believe ) . GHb is serious stuff .

 I get dyskinesia 3/4 hour after taking the first pill in the morning
in a brief period between a PD reduced muscle function state and
a normal muscle function state , and a much longer more intense period
at the end of dosage going the opposite way in muscle function.
Explaining everything in terms of dopamine , it wuold seem that
dyskinesia is caused by a certain  level of dopamine . Above this
level no major PD symtoms . Below this level PD symtoms .I compare it
to a car with a unbalanced wheel . It will produce violent vibrations
only within a certain range of speeds . Either above or below this
range and one is relatively okay .
  I purchased a small quantity of GHB to test if I could avoid
dyskinesia by dropping my dopamine level quickly. It works . But I am
no longer convinced by the explanation .
 I fail to see that if the main effect of GHB is a temporary
suppression of dopamine in the brain , then how can it treat
depression ( a PD symptom supposedly caused by a lack of dopamine
long term)
 GHB is concentrated mainly in the Thalamus in the brain ( ringing of
bells here ) . Its action is poorly understood . It was first used as
a way of GABA crossing the blood/brain barrier .
 When I get my next batch I want to try the following experiments .
 1) Since my body can act as a dopamine monitor ( PD has some uses )
I can establish whether GHB does temporarily depress dopamine levels
and then cause the level to rise after 3 hours . This effect  might
be useful in extending the  action time of the L-dopa cap.
2) My chief problem in taking a drug holiday is that after 3 days I
get very depressed inspite of the fact that I can still function
(although badly ) physicaly .I have become psychologicaly dependant
on L-dopa . I will try GHB's reputed anti depressant effect to see if
it helps me with a long drug holiday .
Most drugs fade in their effect with time and use . How long  does
GHB's beneficial effects last?
 I am hoping that GHB  will help with some of the side effects of
L-dopa . But the case for the beneficial effects of GHB on PD is
far from established . I dont want to build up hopes prematurely .
I will post further on GHB when I complete the experiments .
     peace
          Alastair     ( [log in to unmask] )