Guys,
This is NOT the place for political dialogue. PD is depressing enough. 
Take your politics elsewhere.
Tony

On 4/16/2012 2:29 PM, David McMurray wrote:
>  Hi Rick; the difference between the way I see it, as opposed to many
>  on this site; it's obvious that I am convinced the government IS the
>  problem, not the solution. The thousands of alphabet soup agencies
>  that had such glowing promise of solving a particular social or
>  economic injustice has been a miserable failure, with the only
>  answer from the Feds: create more bureaucracy and increase spending.
>  Jimmy Carter in 1976, I believe, created the Dept. of Energy to end
>  our reliance on foreign oil, by "developing and producing domestic
>  supplies". OSHA was created to increase safety in the workplace, but
>  has had little or no impact. (But has caused tremendous cost
>  increases). The NLRB was originally formed as an un-biased Federal
>  Agency to settle disputes between Management and Labor. Now, it is a
>  crusader for Organized Labor.... This Behemoth (Big Government) has a
>  voracious and insatiable appetite that has the US, as well as most of
>  the industrial nations drowning in red ink. We are broke, period.
>
>  With our huge deficits growing exponentially, Obama trots out his
>  answer to Health Insurance, claiming it will lower medical costs. Of
>  coarse, the numbers used have been proven to be as worthless as the
>  paper it's written on, with the GAO and bi-partisan congressional
>  review stating the actual cost is triple the projections....
>
>  One of the lead proponents of Obama-Care is in love with Great
>  Britain's plan. I've read some interesting comments and some
>  history..correct me if this is not accurate; some claim that the
>  glowing promise of the newly formed NHS in July of 1948 becoming the
>  bench mark for Socialized Medicine has failed miserably, considered
>  by many as the worst of all the industrialized nations. Costs have
>  exploded. The NHS uses the most aggressive pricing in the West,
>  going so far as to assign a price to the "Quality-Adjusted Life
>  Year", that is required to extend it. But from 1996-2008 national
>  health costs in the UK have gone up 6.7%, compared with 5.7% in the
>  U.S. If you don't qualify under the "Quality-adjusted Life Year
>  criterion, and chose to have the treatment and pay for it yourself,
>  you are kicked off the NHS for life.
>
>  Terminally ill patients are classified as "close to death" to allow
>  removal of expensive life support. Hip and knee replacement
>  schedules are supposed to be 5 months, but are actually a 11 month
>  wait. If you buy a drug that NHS won't cover, you're expelled for
>  ever. In 1999, realizing they couldn't absorb the skyrocketing
>  costs, they formed rationing boards whose sole purpose was to
>  identify and limit coverage to those procedures that were deemed
>  "cost effective". The "QALY" was formed precisely to deny elderly
>  care patients and shift coverage to younger, healthier patients.
>  This probably explains the statistics that show the UK with the
>  highest mortality rates for elderly patients diagnosed with cancer
>  or chronic illnesses.
>
>  There's much, much more that should cause us to pause, ponder, and
>  heed the warning signs....they are there.
>
>  Dave
>
>  P.S.: Rick, I didn't refer to them as "death panels", and didn't
>  compare Obama to Stalin. :)
>
>  -----Original Message----- From: Rick McGirr Sent: Sunday, April 15,
>  2012 11:05 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: WHAT W I
>  LL YOU DO IN NOVEMBER? David,
>
>  If America is so wealthy, why are so many people living without any
>  healthcare at all?
>
>  We have seen the profit motive at work in healthcare before, in the
>  case of the pharmaceutical company which pulled the plug on a trial
>  of GDNF. The chief exec of the company was caught saying, at a
>  shareholder meeting, that treatments such as GDNF were not the way
>  the company should go, because of its poor profit prospects. Left
>  alone to cope in our free-market system, these poor subjects are
>  stuck with the hardware for the delivery of GDNF still implanted in
>  their bodies. This is not a hypothetical case. It actually happened.
>
>  Echoing Ray’s remarks, what if a cure for Parkinson’s was developed,
>  but the projections for the profitability were low enough to steer
>  the most companies away from the cure’s development and mass
>  production? Is there no point at all when a caring society should
>  stand up for all the ones who would be left in the lurch? Are we to
>  sit idly by and let the bulls trample our chance of regaining what we
>  have lost during our tenure as inmates in the PD prison?
>
>  David, I just don’t know how you could fall for the “death committee”
>  lies and the comparisons of Mr. Obama’s presidency to Stalinist
>  Russia in the mid-20th century. I say if there is enough money in
>  our society to fight two or three simultaneous wars and bully the
>  rest of the world with our military in the vanguard, bail out the
>  banks and Chevrolet, and give the proposed tax cuts to the wealthiest
>  beneficiaries of the free-market, there certainly should be a little
>  pile of coins that we could sweep up after the capitalist binge,
>  enough to provide for development of unprofitable but effective
>  treatments, along with coverage for those who can’t afford it.
>
>  Being deemed “unfit for further treatment” is much more likely in the
>  system that existed before the Affordable Healthcare Act. I’m sure
>  there are many on this listserve who can testify to having been
>  denied prescription coverage, or paying hundreds of dollars for a
>  single bottle of pills. And I’m sure that all of us have heard horror
>  stories about people being denied care in emergency rooms, and later
>  dying because they didn’t have insurance coverage. In fact,
>  committees who do indeed decide people’s fate on a cost-benefit basis
>  exist right now, today, only they are not created and run by
>  President Obama and his sinister squad of eugenic scientists. They
>  are just part of the daily practice of running a health insurance
>  company.
>
>  It's becoming increasingly harder to watch these discussions without
>  participating. Hope you don't mind.
>
>  Rick McGirr
>
>  -----Original Message----- From: Parkinson's Information Exchange
>  Network [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Rayilyn
>  Brown Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2012 2:53 AM To:
>  [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: WHAT W I LL YOU DO IN
>  NOVEMBER?
>
>  Hi David,
>
>  and thanks for responding. I guess you fear Obama has death panels
>  in store for us, right? So what do you suggest for health care?
>
>  At one time in history feudalism was a "better" system.
>  Capitalism and industralization definitely led to human progress;
>  non-industial societies don't do very well. But is this the end of
>  the line? The best we can do? I specifically asked why profit had
>  to be a part of health care and you did not address that question.
>
>  The defects of the "free market" system put us in this mess, not Mr.
>  Obama. The repeal of the Glass-Seagall Act's ban on investment and
>  commercial banking in one institution led to the financial breakdown.
>  It had kept us safe since the 1930's
>
>  I for one am tired of hearing about the superiority of the United
>  States. For your information DBS was first done by a French doctor.
>  ProSavin is only being done in the UK and France.
>
>  I also think the big government vs. small government issue is a phony
>  one. What matters is who is in the government not how big or small
>  it is. For the past few decades Republicans have gotten control of
>  many state governments. Witness the retrogressive, extremist
>  legislation they are producing or attempting to produce, personhood
>  laws, bans on collective bargaining, invasive vaginal exams, voter
>  suppression, anti-abortion, stand your ground, etc. Talk about Big
>  Brother!!!!
>
>  These issues do affect people with Parkinson's and all diseases for
>  that matter. We ignore them at our peril.
>
>  -----Original Message----- From: David McMurray Sent: Saturday, April
>  14, 2012 12:26 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: WHAT
>  W I LL YOU DO IN NOVEMBER?
>
>  Ray, your comments and questions warrant a response.....in general,
>  profit has made this country the most prosperous, with the highest
>  standard of living, in the history of mankind. Instead of a system,
>  like the Soviet Union and others that shared and share equally in
>  scarcity, (which increases human suffering and a poverty standard of
>  living), our Free Market economy has done just the opposite. And if
>  we can reverse the direction that Mr. Obama has pointed us in, we
>  will continue to see opportunities for those who want to work hard
>  and improve their lot in life.
>
>  I am much more concerned about Big Brother telling us what we can or
>  cannot be treated for. I've seen the quotes, and the Panels of
>  Experts that will eventually be formed under ObamaCare will have the
>  power to deem an individual unfit for further treatment, or a
>  specific treatment, (based on economic concerns, i.e., what's the
>  cost/benefit factor.) Obama has mentioned the fact that the rising
>  cost of Care is directly related to the increased numbers of the
>  Senior population and the expensive treatment for serious illnesses
>  common to them. Denying treatment is going to be a major
>  cost-cutting feature of OBC.....this concept used to be"
>  Unthinkable", but has become "Thinkable", soon to be
>  "Acceptable".....all done for the "common good".
>
>  November, for me is a "no-brainer"....:):)
>
>  Dave
>
>
>
>  -----Original Message----- From: Rayilyn Brown Sent: Friday, April
>  13, 2012 1:57 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: WHAT W I
>  LL YOU DO IN NOVEMBER?
>
>  I just heard Romney’s address to the NRA. he said Obama is
>  destroying our economic, religious and personal freedom (to choose
>  our own health care), and the constitution . The Declaration of
>  Independence god-given rights was also cited.
>
>  What kind of a life does one have with Parkinson’s?
>
>  Is a cure going to come from the free market which sees no profit in
>  a cure, the churches, or the NRA?
>
>  Can someone tell me why profit has to be the foundation of our health
>  care?
>
>  WHAT A TERRIBLE SHAME IT WOULD BE IF PROSAVIN TURNED OUT TO BE A CURE
>  FOR PD, BUT WAS NOT PROFITABLE ENOUGH FOR THE “JOB CREATORS”!!
>
>  Please, I beg you, don’t return us to the past.
>
>  Ray Rayilyn Brown Past Director AZNPF Arizona Chapter National
>  Parkinson Foundation
>
>  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
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>
 in life.<br>
      &gt; <br>
      &gt; I am much more concerned about Big Brother telling us what we
      can or<br>
      &gt; cannot be treated for. I've seen the quotes, and the Panels
      of<br>
      &gt; Experts that will eventually be formed under ObamaCare will
      have the<br>
      &gt; power to deem an individual unfit for further treatment, or a<br>
      &gt; specific treatment, (based on economic concerns, i.e., what's
      the<br>
      &gt; cost/benefit factor.) Obama has mentioned the fact that the
      rising<br>
      &gt; cost of Care is directly related to the increased numbers of
      the<br>
      &gt; Senior population and the expensive treatment for serious
      illnesses<br>
      &gt; common to them. Denying treatment is going to be a major<br>
      &gt; cost-cutting feature of OBC.....this concept used to be"<br>
      &gt; Unthinkable", but has become "Thinkable", soon to be<br>
      &gt; "Acceptable".....all done for the "common good".<br>
      &gt; <br>
      &gt; November, for me is a "no-brainer"....:):)<br>
      &gt; <br>
      &gt; Dave<br>
      &gt; <br>
      &gt; <br>
      &gt; <br>
      &gt; -----Original Message----- From: Rayilyn Brown Sent: Friday,
      April<br>
      &gt; 13, 2012 1:57 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject:
      WHAT W I<br>
      &gt; LL YOU DO IN NOVEMBER?<br>
      &gt; <br>
      &gt; I just heard Romney’s address to the NRA. he said Obama is<br>
      &gt; destroying our economic, religious and personal freedom (to
      choose<br>
      &gt; our own health care), and the constitution . The Declaration
      of<br>
      &gt; Independence god-given rights was also cited.<br>
      &gt; <br>
      &gt; What kind of a life does one have with Parkinson’s?<br>
      &gt; <br>
      &gt; Is a cure going to come from the free market which sees no
      profit in<br>
      &gt; a cure, the churches, or the NRA?<br>
      &gt; <br>
      &gt; Can someone tell me why profit has to be the foundation of
      our health<br>
      &gt; care?<br>
      &gt; <br>
      &gt; WHAT A TERRIBLE SHAME IT WOULD BE IF PROSAVIN TURNED OUT TO
      BE A CURE<br>
      &gt; FOR PD, BUT WAS NOT PROFITABLE ENOUGH FOR THE “JOB
      CREATORS”!!<br>
      &gt; <br>
      &gt; Please, I beg you, don’t return us to the past.<br>
      &gt; <br>
      &gt; Ray Rayilyn Brown Past Director AZNPF Arizona Chapter
      National<br>
      &gt; Parkinson Foundation<br>
      &gt; <br>
      &gt;
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
      &gt;<br>
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